Why is Frazier an ATG?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Babality, Mar 8, 2023.

  1. Tin_Ribs

    Tin_Ribs Me Full Member

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    Yeah one of them folk.
     
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  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This content is protected
     
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  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    /thread.
     
  4. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

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    Also won an Olympic gold medal in 1964.
     
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  5. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Because he whupped Ali when Ali was close to prime. A good question is where would he be ranked if he lost the FOTC.
     
  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    I'm a huge Frazier fan and he's my favorite fighter but Ali was nowhere near his prime. He'd had barely over an hour of ring time in 4 years, let's not kid ourselves.

    That's actually a very good question I never thought about.
     
  7. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

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    What? Frazier whip Holmes?

    Larry would beat the one handed fighter much like he beat Marvis

    It would go a few rounds longer but same result

    Joe is not versatile enough

    nor is he versatile enough to handle Young, Tyson, Bowe, lewis, Tokyo Douglas, or probably not even Holyfield

    Who are we kidding?
     
  8. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ali wasnt close to prime and his legs didnt look great in that fight. That's why he lay on the ropes for most of the fight
     
  9. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

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    what about Larry holmes? You think larry is going to lay on the ropes for him?

    He's going to turn his hwead into mush with his big right hand

    What about Mike Tyson?

    What about 6- 5 bowe?

    Tyson fury?

    Joe Louis?

    Lennox Lewis?
     
  10. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    So Tin, would that make you a Pomvict?

    And I do use the term Pom affectionately. :D

    I’ve been meaning to visit South Yorkshire but I still can’t find it on the map of Australia.

    No biggie, on our maps we sometimes leave out the whole of Tasmania - potentially, we could only offend a population of about 10 (jk).

    You know, some maps of the world have literally (fact) left out New Zealand. How rude is that? I feel for our Kiwi bros and their considerable sheep population. No one should be treated so baa-aadly.

    It’s okay, I’m a Dad and hold a default paternal licence to crack terrible jokes.

    Actually, and this IS true, I have an Irish female ancestor who came out as a convict. Her crime, perhaps stealing a mere loaf of bread you might guess?

    Err, not quite. She was actually charged with the alleged murder of a policeman - using a “rock in a sock”. It was retaliation for her brother’s death at police hands. An empowered woman.

    She copped a death sentence but it was commuted and she was sent on to Australia instead.

    In Australia she married an Irish fellow who had also come out as a convict - he was orig. sentenced to death but also sent to Australia instead. His crime? The purchase of some 26 stolen sheep.

    Alf Stewart a Mod? Hell yeah. Make that two votes for the bloody mongrel.

    He knew how to keep the flamin’ hooligans in Summer Bay well and truly in line. He’d have a picnic here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2023
  11. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    Excellent post.

    I’ve been getting my Jimmy Young on of late.

    Prior to being availed of more affording footage I didn’t have the whole picture on the man and was guilty of underrating him due to lack of vision.

    He was somewhat paradoxical within himself. Low KOs, deemed a soft puncher - but there he is, hurting and stunning the likes of Foreman (though fatigue contributed in that instance), Lyle, Norton and even Ali - which the great man himself admitted to.

    Also, although more accented on defence, he could become very aggressive and really let the hands go. Very fast hands but great timing also. Atop all that, he also upheld a very good chin when it was tested.

    He was a deceptively good size for the era also - 6’2” and in the range of 210 lbs to 215 lbs when fit and ready.

    He just looked a bit soft compared to some of the better muscled guys like Foreman, Lyle and Norton but he wasn’t soft when push came to shove.

    Sometimes he was a bit of moaner, a very demonstrative complainer in the ring re opposition tactics he felt were foul. A bit off putting.

    But then Jimmy was no angel himself - often practicing many of the moves he complained of himself - and despite his brilliance, sticking half of his body out of the ring vs Ali was bad policy and ridiculous imo.

    Very, very smart fighter otherwise. I just re- watched Norton vs Young again, - it was actually a very entertaining duke out imo. Part chess match, part brawling. Two fit HWs, thinking and punching busily through out the whole of 15 rounds.

    Norton was smart enough to concentrate on the body - Young was so damn hard to nail with head shots - particularly with right hands.

    Very close fight but I personally gave Norton a very slight edge, great body work and nice jab to keep Young honest - though Jimmy’s combos to the head were far prettier.

    There’s a thread here that confirmed that there is a tape out there - or at least there was one, of the Shavers - Young rematch. I’d love to see it.

    I wish someone could concretely confirm that it is out there somewhere.

    A green Young was brutally stopped in their first fight - orig., it was often reported as a 1st round stoppage but it was actually in the 3rd round.

    Even during the Norton-Young call, Cosell referred to the Shavers loss as a 1st round stoppage - I wonder how the confusion arose re which round the fight was stopped in.

    But huge credit to Young, he was one of the few to rematch Earnie, and after a devastating TKO loss - which took real moxie - and though the rematch resulted in an official draw, most observers felt that Young won.

    And Young was also dropped in the rematch vs Shavers in Rd 4 I think, reportedly by a body shot - but still arose to get on with the job till final bell.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2023
  12. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Excellent post but small nitpick. I don’t think Young hurt Foreman at all. Foreman seemed to go down from a combination of exhaustion and being off balance. He didn’t look remotely hurt imo.

    I agree he hurt Norton. I was watching the last round of their fight and it was probably the only exciting round Young ever produced :lol:

    Norton definitely felt his punches as noted by the commentary theme.
     
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  13. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree. It's bizarre the amount of times we've seen "dropped by the light hitting Young" but he fell over. Technically you can score it a KD as Young touched him as he fell but it's certainly no genuine hurt KD. Foreman bounces straight back up looking to fight as he felt he slipped, which he did.
     
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  14. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Tbh I never thought it should've been scored as a KD and neither did the commentators when it happened. It genuinely looked like he slipped to me.

    I agree it's very odd how frequently it comes up along with Young beating Foreman in exchanges when Young himself literally said that's the one thing he tried to avoid doing.

    It's as laughable as it is pathetic.
     
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  15. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Yeah he 99% fell over.
     
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