Not saying Lyle is Joe Louis. But he was a legitimate top 10 contender in a golden who gave a good account of himself against the best. I can’t believe Ruddock is thought of more than he what he was - Tysons tomato can to keep him busy while trying to build the Holyfield fight.
I should've been more respectful. I apologize. Few points I have to raise in regard to this part of your post "Lyle gave a great version of The Greatest a real fight. Almost took out Foreman in a smoker. Only guy to ever really buckle Big George. Fought a lot of great fighters. Of those half he lost mostly in competitive fights, half he won. Lyle was legit." I always see Lyle's effort against Ali blown wildly out of proportion. People have this narrative that Lyle dominated Ali, and outworked him throughout their bout, when in reality Ali was just in one of his lazy modes. doing virtually nothing throughout the entire bout. Lyle didn't remotely hurt Ali at all in their bout. He was simply winning because he was the busier man. As soon as Ali got down to business that fight was over quickly. As for him knocking down Foreman, it was quite an anomaly. Foreman had just returned from a hiatus of a year and half off the top of my head, and clearly wasn't the same fighter. Lyle was badly hurt at the 2nd and potentially about to go before the round was abruptly cut short. He was badly beaten Jimmy Young losing all but one round in both of their bouts. I don't know, I find him very overrated. Guys like Cleveland Williams, Razor Ruddock, etc beat more top ten contenders, and did much better against boxers than Lyle ever did, yet they don't have half the success in H2H bouts as Lyle does. I'm no mathematician but something's not adding up.
Bugner and Bonavena would surely have been contenders Swag? I reckon Shavers likely would have been too. Ellis would not have been far away either, perhaps fringe. @SolomonDeedes any idea on these 4 when they fought Lyle? I'd back Bugner and Bonavena to be top 10 when he fought them, Bugner a little less so, i think Shavers may have been as well and Ellis maybe a hair out?
Honestly @swagdelfadeel i normally agree with you and your fantastic poster, and whilst i do agree that Ron Lyle is overrated. I do think your selling him a bit short here. Lyle had wins over Shavers, Ellis, Bugner, Bonavena, Garcia = KO'ed Norton, Mathis, Peralta. And also has two valiant efforts vs Ali and Foreman. Compare that to Ruddock who's best wins are over a faded Weaver, in which he almost KO'ed and won a SD. A win over a faded Bonecrusher in which he struggled immensely and was dropped, and a good KO over a past it Dokes. Are those wins really any better than Lyle's best wins ? and whilst Ruddock did put up a valiant effort vs Tyson, he probably won like 4 rounds in total in 2 fights vs him. Lyle performed much better and won more rounds vs his best opponents in Ali, Foreman. For me Lyle has the better resume of the two, and did better overall against Foreman, Ali, than Ruddock did vs Tyson. But whether or not you think Ruddock beats Lyle that's a different matter, and that's entirely up to you how you see it.
For a little while in time there was a saying, term/phrase/whatever, where people would say "BRE" and that meant "Big Razor Energy." And I would like to at least go back to that time. Because that is the time I am sentimental about.
Shavers was a contender. Number 6 off the top of my head. Don't think Bugner, and Bonavena were ranked though. Bonavena I believe was on his last legs and had done nothing of note in years losing to Patterson in one of his last fights two years prior so I'd be very surprised if he was ranked. Bugner had just come out of retirement one fight prior against Dunn, so I'd also be surprised if he was ranked.
Very fair. Perhaps I'm selling Lyle a bit short. But again, I find his performances against Ali overrated. I always get annoyed when I see people acting like he was dominating Ali, and outclassing him when the reality is Ali was barely doing anything all night. It's not like he was being outclassed or anything.
Bonavena was ranked #7 in March 1974, the same month Lyle beat him so you can count him as a contender for certain. I actually thought he was the single contender you were talking about. Bugner was actually ranked #10 in March 77, again the same month Lyle fought him so carve him in cement too. So that's 3 contenders beaten by Lyle if we add Shavers. Ellis was #9 in March 74 but then drew with Middleton who was ranked by March 75. The draw probably knocked Ellis a smidgeon outside the 10 but it's not completely impossible that it could have elevated Middleton to something like #9 with Ellis #10. At any rate Ellis if he wasn't in the 10 he very likely would have been just one or two places outside it going into Lyle.
I stand corrected. I’ll concede the point. Lyle has three wins over contenders. Not too shabby. I still find him overrated on the basis of his performances against Foreman and Ali and think he gets a lot of unwarranted mileage in H2H matchups.
ngl I kind of get sick of that Choklab guy making him out to be a H2H monster. His obsession is worrying at this point.
