Why is Frazier an ATG?

Frazier is a tough fight for nearly every pre-Lennox Lewis heavyweights. He’d have a great shot against Louis I think I’d favor him against Dempsey & Marciano. He’d have a tough time against Holmes. Once you hit Lennox Lewis, most of the guys are too big. I used to regularly doze off during Wlad’s fights but I’d struggle to pick Ali, Holmes, or Tyson against him. The giant heavyweights are too much for most of the all time greats. Those guys were warriors though.

 

I don't think it's fair to question Frazier's status as an all-time great heavyweight. He took Ali's '0' in spectacular fashion and also beat some of the better heavyweights of his era. The reservations I have regarding Joe are mostly about how he'd perform h2h against other heavyweights. Frazier didn't face many punchers in his career but he still got hurt badly on numerous occasions. He offered no resistance against George Foreman and barely made it out of the first round. I understand that Foreman was a wrecking ball in his youth but he was hardly a marksman. Frazier was a relatively short heavyweight who only came forward. That's why he was always hittable despite having great head movement. I just don't believe he would be able to break down big heavyweights like many think.

 

You think that's bad, in 1975, Ring magazine had Ali 9, and Frazier 10

I actually have Frazier ranked 4th in the 1970s alone behind Ali, Foreman, Holmes, and Young

Jimmy gets this honor because he whipped big punchers Foreman, lyle (twice) , easy win over Ali and at least even with Norton

Jimmy BEAT the big punchers whereas Frazier couldnt

Now in the nearly 50 years since, with the larger heavyweights, frazier figures to fall further down the list.

Losses to Foreman and a lack of versatility/size, hurt him

 

I have defended Jimmy Young numerous times, but Frazier smokes him like a blunt. Either Frazier takes a very annoying and frustrating to watch decision over Young whose spoiling/running/clinching/going into his shell/fighting simply to survive/etc or he batters him against the ropes or in the corner from round 6 onwards until he gets an obvious win or stops Young from too much pressure. Frazier is a horrible matchup for Young who fights at a slow pace, lacks the power to keep swarmers off of him, and lacks the versatility and tools to neutralize Frazier's inside fighting.

Holmes would be an intriguing matchup, but he would also have nightmares with a peak Frazier. If Frazier gets past the jab (highly likely given the Ali fights), he gives Holmes the fight of his life in an entertaining war. The only other punch Holmes can really threaten him with is the uppercut which could definitely ruin Frazier's rhythm, but landing just one won't be enough.

 

Great post, GW

 

For anyone who's still in doubt of this guy's stupidity, please note this guy doesn't even have basic mathematic fundamentals nailed.

 

I dont know your history or how you see Jimmy but...

If the much larger and more powerful Foreman, couldnt do it, there is no way a one handed in fighter can smoke him as you say

Jimmy would have the answer for the straight ahead, one handed Frazier

keep in mind, it was not only Big George, but Lyle, twice, both of whom were more powerful punchers

In addition, a draw with Shavers

Jimmy wins an easy decision whether it be ten or 15

 

maybe you should get your eyes checked, O jealous and bitter rival

still havent gotten over that whipping I gave you

 

Glass City, you think that all Joe has to do is get past larry's jab???

Larry's jab would just introduce Joe to larry's cannon of a right hand, and then LIGHTS OUT

and what makes you think Larry is just interested in hitting Joe once with it?

 

Frazier would probably rate as the third best heavyweight of his era. In many eras that's not seen as greatness. I'd rate Baer the third best of his era and most don't rate him an ATG.

 

Because of styles. Foreman was more powerful than Frazier, but you can't just apply ABC logic. Otherwise, Foreman would have beaten Ali since Ali beat Frazier. That's now how it works. Foreman had also changed trainers and his own style against Young. He wasn't the same confident, relentless slugger. Young could counter Foreman at mid range better than he could Frazier who would leave him little room to operate. Frazier did not simply charge straight ahead, he bobbed and weaved.

Frazier was not one handes. He throw right hands to the head and body. I suggest you watch his fights with Stander, Ellis, and I believe the Machen fight be threw way more than just the left hook. He threw combinations and even some jabs in those fights.

Young never won an "easy" 15 round decision over any fighter as good as Frazier. These are gross exaggerations.

 

No I don't think all Frazier has to do is get past Holmes' jab. Literally in the post you quoted I said Frazier would still have to worry about Holmes uppercut. I never said it would be easy, but at his best he gives Holmes one hell of a fight win or lose. That much is very clear looking at footage of the both of them and the way the styles clash.

 

The Foreman that Jimmy beat was ill prepared and clearly not the same as the one who fought Frazier, the Ali decision is debatable (also a past it Ali compared to the closer to prime one Frazier beat) and I would have given Jimmy a clearer nod if he didn't duck into the ropes. Holmes didn't really start building up his career until the late 70s, I'd rank Norton and Quarry ahead of him in the 70s. And Joe is more versatile than what most detractors think, he doesn't get credit for his body punching or right hand because his left hook was so good.

 

You mean when you lied and said Norton was rated above Frazier in March of '73, because you were to stupid to realize people could easily check?

The stupidity of this post still astounds me because Norton had done nothing of note, until the very last day of March which wouldn't be reflected in the ratings until April while Frazier was the ex-champ.

In March, Frazier was rated in the WBA, top 3 (most likely number 1) (Source Clipping from The Times-Tribune - Newspapers.com)

and rated number 2 by the Ring while Norton was ranked number 8. (Source: Clipping from The Record - Newspapers.com),

Norton moved up one spot being ranked 7 and 6 by the Ring and WBA respectively (Source: Clipping from The Columbus Ledger - Newspapers.com) after his big win over Ali.

 

Not many eras have the consensus GOAT active in it.

I swear every time you post, you sound dumber and dumber.