20 years ago, Roy Jones Jr. beat John Ruiz.

Jones is no heavyweight and would have gotten knocked out by other big heavyweights (by the likes of Rahman, Peter). It would not even have taken Vitali or Lewis to KO him. That is why he left the division and ironically got KOD soon after that. How Ruiz performed that night was a disgrace.

 

That's because without the excessive clinching,elbows and butts were removed from Ruiz arsenal. Without that he's an average fighter that's a little bit above the Scott Ledoux level. His post Tua pre Holyfield resume is pretty bad as well with his best wins being a shot Tony Tucker and Jimmy Thunder.

 

Nailed it!

 

In no order:

Toney
Hopkins
Hill
Ruiz
Tarver
Griffin II
Johnson

It would honestly be hard for me to pick 5 from those.

There’s lots of different reasons why you could choose any of them.


Regarding the Ruiz fight, there’s three things that went against Roy:

1. Ruiz had a horrible, ugly style.

2. Ruiz wasn’t a great HW like Lennox.

3. The fight was uneventful.


Under different circumstances, Roy would have gotten more credit.

If Ruiz had been a durable CW or something, then Roy would have gotten credit.

If Roy had’ve been hurt/knocked down, and it’d have been an exciting fight, he’d have gotten more credit.

But people were pi$$ed that it wasn’t against Lennox, and it was boring.

So Roy doesn’t get a lot of credit.

IMHO, he deserves a lot of credit.


Regarding Jay Nady, yes, in the first 2 rounds, he did stop the clinches. But after that, Ruiz never attempted any more. And IMO, that wasn’t just because of Nady. That’s because Roy made Ruiz hesitant by beating him to the punch. And towards the end of the fight, Ruiz’s trainer, Norman Stone screamed and slapped at Ruiz to just go out there and “F’in fight him!”

Norman Stone was quizzing Ruiz on why he wasn’t walking him down, and why he was standing off of him. And I don’t believe for one second that the reason why, was specifically because Nady had warned him 8-9 rounds earlier.

 

I seen it!
It was a nice win but Roy should have stayed at HW, rematched with James Toney and then gone for the rotting carcasses of either Holyfield or Tyson (Tyson preferably). He could have also mixed in a "safe" opponent like Chris Byrd.
We would be talking about him today the same way people blow smoke up Usyks ***

 

It was seen as being a huge deal at the time, and it represents the high watermark of Jones's prestige.

It was the first time since the 19th century that a former middleweight title holder, had won a version of the heavyweight title.

People were seriously talking about Jones as a candidate for the p4p GOAT.

There was talk of matching Jones with Lewis, Holyfield or Tyson after the fight.

In many ways what followed from it was a huge letdown.

Jones made a historic mistake by returning to light heavy.

 

it was not a mistake.He would have gotten KOD at heavweight.Jones was no heavweight

 

How do you know RJJ was juiced for Ruiz??

He didn’t test dirty for this fight so you stating it as a fact is you talking out of your arse to diminish Roy’s achievement in this fight (standard hater fare).

Maybe Roy was juiced but you don’t know that just as you don’t know that Ruiz was clean. That’s you inventing a narrative in your head to explain away an ex Jnr Middleweight beating one of the better performed heavyweights of the early 2000’s and gaining a world title.

Anyone who doesn’t give Roy any credit whatsoever for this win has a clear agenda and bias against him. Pretty pathetic these days imo

 

Even getting KO's at heavyweight, would have been better than getting KO'd at light heavyweight.

It would have meant a bigger pay day, and less damage to his legacy.

 

I like you Griff, but game on for a moment.

You've revealed yourself suggesting that I'm a hater. A hater? Lol. Not at all. I could reciprocate and say applying that label to me is standard fare for a nut hugger. Both labels mean sh*t and shouldn't even come into the discussion but there's always someone who has introduce same for want of anything better to say.

And you don't know it to be FACT that I am a hater but per your own reasoning, you have "deduced" it.

You also focused in on one feature to my opinion, which was actually added after the fact of my first post.

Clearly, I didn't withdraw all credit from Roy - and I analyzed other features to the bout which could be seen to have taken some credit away. I don't have to repeat what I have already written, even if it has been ignored.

I’ve noted the recent of wave of protest against anyone stating that they believe a fighter to be/have been on steroids or such without 100% proof. Apply that treatment and embargo to all other manner of claims on this board that also don’t have 100% proof - guess what? The pages here would be blank.

A fighter can be juiced and still pass. Roy failed several tests prior to the Ruiz fight, at least one failure covered up. By all mean, correct me if I am wrong on this.

Roy gained notable weight for Ruiz, without fat, Ruiz LOST weight. On appearances, I'm comfortable with saying that the newly. even more bulked Jones looked like he was on PEDs. Cleary, per the eye test, Ruiz raised no such suspicions.

Let's also cut to the chase of a potential, follow up question: IF Jones Jr had been proven 100% to have roided up for the Ruiz fight - what then? Would those who currently say that it can't be concretely proven then move to saying it doesn't matter and that Jones' STILL deserves full credit? I'm curious.

Back to the other features of the fight that I orig. identified. Ruiz simply did not deliver on the specific issues he was EXPECTED to present to Roy. And Nady contributed in large measure to the failure in delivery.

A recent post suggested that Nady ONLY heavily policed clinching and in fighting in the first 2 rounds. That is flatly incorrect. Nady was on it throughout the bout - and that would and did appear to have an effect on Ruiz' inclination to get in there and fight the fight that best suited him.

Also, Norman Stone(ed) comments during the fight were referenced - telling Ruiz to get out there and do something, to imply that Ruiz' deficiencies during the fight were all down to Johnny, no one else. That's fine but, in equal proportion and weighting, Stone also abused Nady during the fight and accused him of betting on Roy - which was to imply that Nady was unduly stifling and shutting Ruiz down.

 

Jones failed one test prior to the Richard Hall fight (which Hall also failed as an aside).

I get tired of Jones having a single failed test (which from memory the B sample came back negative) used as a means to shitcan his entire career. Mosley, Vitali, Fury, Toney etc all have failed tests or dubious links to juicing labs yet never cop any of the crap Jones does. Guys like Hopkins bulked up significantly later in their career without losing anything physically yet for some reason are beyond reproach. I can’t stand the double standards because some other fighters are more “old school” or some such. Jones maybe did juice for Ruiz but you and I can’t say for sure if he did or didn’t and it’s a folly to state as a fact that he was juicing when you and I don’t know that. It’s churlishness imo.

The other stuff about Nady and his over officious refereeing means not much to me. Jones was the name fighter in this bout and refs often seem to favour the A side attraction (see Mayweather-Hatton, Hatton-Tszyu etc etc etc).

And Stoney whinging was par for the course. He (hilariously) bitched and moaned about the ref in practically every big fight Ruiz had so I wouldn’t put much stock in him complaining about Nady in this fight.

Ruiz got beaten up and became gunshy after getting his nose broken early in the fight I think. Jones deserves full credit for enacting a game plan that worked for him against a guy who was 20+lbs heavier and Ruiz must still kick himself for underperforming like he did.

 

I've read that Jones Jr. failed more than that one test, testing failures prior to the Hall fight. And actually, yeah, I can say if I think he was on the juice based on the pointers I've already referenced - like I said, check all your opinions you've ever expressed with utmost conviction - have you had 100% material proof to back on every occasion?

And now you're broadening the question of usage, referring to other fighters who might've used, as if to dilute Jones' using and move away from the actual subject in question: Roy Jones Jr.

That's fine if Nady's slanted refereeing means not much to you. However, it seems you'll rear up on the question of Jones' using, but you're not so concerned if the ref. favored Jones. Got it.

Try to read me correctly. I didn't initialize the reference to Norman Stone. I referred to a prior post that did. You've come full circle to the point I already made in my last post - basically, people can't have their Norman Stone(d) cake and eat it too. On the whole, the man instantly discredits himself - one can't cherry pick one thing he said whilst ignoring anything other nonsense that came out of his mouth.

You just acknowledged that Nady's officiating was partial to Jones (no?) but go on to say that Jones' deserves full credit for enacting his game plan - sorry dude, that's a contradiction and doesn't make sense.

Ruiz wasn't so gun shy as to NOT continue to try moving in on Jones to make it up close and personal - and virtually every time he did, Nady came to the "rescue"- which in itself might well have made Ruiz gun shy to try it more often. Whatever Ruiz had in "arsenal" to worry Jones was totally removed from the equation - in no small measure due to Nady. For whatever it's worth, Ruiz himself said Nady very much stifled his own, usual game plan - with Nady generally ensuring optimal distance for Roy throughout the fight.

Finally, I don't expect anyone to address all my points and/or questions, I'm not so self-centered or pretentious, they can ignore all my points if they like - it's just a discussion board and we're not playing for sheep stations. Also, this is an environment in which Parliamentary Privilege is exercised on a daily basis.

I'll just note that you didn't touch on one of my points - what if we had 100%, irrefutable proof that Jones juiced for Ruiz? What would you say then? Would you withdraw all credit then? OR, given the curiously "easy" dismissal of Nady's impact on the complexion of the fight, would it be a case of an ever-sliding defense, with the reply being "So what, it was STILL a great performance that shouldn't be tarnished - and besides, most other fighters likely used also?'

 

A great single win and achievement from Roy but this fight was the catalyst for his downfall.

He packed on a lot of muscle to "beef" himself into that heavyweight fight which he then had to strip off when going back down. As we all know, it's much easier to strip fat than lean muscle.

I wish he retired that night. He was never the same after it.

 

It was either this or force ghost Tyson who he later fought in an exhibition anyways that I still give him credit for. Tyson still had a couple of knockouts in the 00s even as a shell as power is that last thing that goes.


Fighting Ruiz was a safer option but ppl r being revisionists. Your first fight moving up going for a championship n winning is still a big feat. Facing bigger guys that r champs/top contenders at a foreign weight is never safe. didn't have to move up at all he would've been an ATG regardless. Expecting him to face Lewis instead then knowing he never proved himself at the weight is just lunacy. No one seriously rates him H2H at hvy they do it for MW-Lt Hvy rightfully so.


Beating Tarver was a great win but he just wasn't in his prime after Ruiz and stuck around too long getting knocked out like its a fetish to him.

 

Myth. He never gained significant muscle.