Photo of Joe Jeannette

Lol, I won’t get into that at this moment - but cool photo, no?

 

Actually, I’ll contradict myself, sort of.

Without specific comment on Dempsey, conceptually, what a fighter does outside the ring doesn’t necessarily preclude his holding racist attitudes in any measure, elsewhere and otherwise.

And, even if he isn’t racist but still precludes engaging black fighters COMPETITIVELY IN THE RING for whatever reason(s), for all intents and purposes, he is still guilty of a form of racial preclusion.

Here’s a photo that we know belied this particular white man’s attitude toward blacks and black fighters otherwise: -

This content is protected

 

Potentialy true and depends on the person. Sure, saying one thing and doing another is a human trait.

 

Thanks Franklin, I appreciate your even handed response and your own perspectives
on Dempsey.

 

That was a sham. Dempsey was scheduled to fight an exhibition for charity and in walks Jeannette from the stands looking for a real fight. Total publicity stunt by his manager Dan McKetrick. Name one other champion since Dempsey who would agree to those terms.

 

You have no evidence to prove Dempsey was a racist. None. Unlike Tunney who was openly racist, yet you don’t attack him with your agenda as consistently as you do Dempsey.

 

You cannot judge Dempsey by using today’s standards for what passes as racism. Whether he wanted to fight Wills or not, his manager would not make the fight nor would many states. After the Jeffries/Johnson riots just a decade prior, no one wanted to risk the liability. Not to mention Dempsey did in fact sign contracts to fight Wills, but his guaranteed advances were never delivered.

 

All due respect, I replied to FD, and he got my point. Certainly weigh in on my reply in the context that it was written - which you haven’t.

But while we’re here - you say you can’t judge - and I presume you mean in moral terms and relative to the era. That has been a long held, deflective misnomer.

Let’s say the term racist and its meaning were completely unknown in the early 20th century.

If you read the mod. day definition of a racist to an actual “racist” (as defined) of the time without a negative connotation attached - they would also say, albeit proudly, “Hell yeah, that’s me - I AM a racist”.

So, of course, even without entering into the realms of morality or right and wrong , you can still accurately and rightfully identify someone as a racist, era notwithstanding.

No would, shoulda, couldas - Burns defended against Johnson in 1908, so there’s a guy who found a way to defy the arguably precluding mores of the day.

 

In 1918 Joe Jeanette was 40 years old, had been fighting more than a decade longer than Dempsey, was bald, and at the tail end of his career and Dempsey refused to fight him in an EXHIBITION because he was BLACK. Immediately after winning the title Dempsey states he will not defend his title against a black man. Dempsey spends the next SEVEN YEARS avoiding his top contender who was BLACK. After Greb lost his title to Tiger Flowers Dempsey was quoted as saying "I cant understand why he gave a NEGRO a chance to take the title away from him." For several years when Louis was champion Dempsey travelled around the country promoting "WHITE HOPE" tournaments designed to find a WHITE fighter to take the title from Louis. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then it means Dempsey was a racist. And frankly, if you want to argue until your pathetic little heart's content that Dempsey wasnt a racist so be it. Then he was a coward. He was either a racist or a coward who hid behind racism to avoid fighting his most dangerous challenger. Take your pick.

 

I got your point too, I just disagreed.

Burns was no Dempsey. By the time Dempsey was champion there had already been race riots a decade prior over Jeffries/Johnson. You also glossed over the comments I contributed about Dempsey having signed contracts to meet Wills, and for circumstances beyond Dempsey’s control, stipulations weren’t met.

 

All that chatter and you still ducked my question. Name one heavyweight since Dempsey who would have agreed to fight an unscheduled opponent during a charity exhibition, one who was looking for a real fight. Jack Johnson certainly wouldn’t have allowed it. He drew the color line on his own race. It was a cheap publicity stunt by McKetrick.

If you can prove Dempsey said any of the things you claim, outside of your Greb cheerleading book, please produce it. No hundred year old tabloid clips from anonymous articles either.

A coward? Ha, Wills dodged a bullet by not getting the Dempsey fight, Jack was all wrong for him and everyone knew it. Dempsey was the most important fighter of the early 20th century.

Sam Langford called Dempsey the greatest fighter he ever knew. Ray Arcel insisted he would have easily defeated Wills, as did Langford. Jack Johnson spoke very highly of Dempsey after they retired.

You are unable to make your case without angry, petty insults and emotional bias. You lost before you even clicked on the “post reply” button.

 

No you didn’t get my point - in which I literally stated “without specific comment on Dempsey” - and it wasn’t a specific comment on Dempsey - I addressed that whatever a fighter does outside of the ring doesn’t offset the express preclusion of fighting a black man IN THE RING.

You simply replied to rant on something else - you couldn’t be disagreeing with me - because you didn’t address what I actually said - Franklin Dallas did address my point.

I then addressed your “reply” - and again, you didn’t address what I said re the absolute definition of racism - era notwithstanding.

And now I’m reading “Burns was no Dempsey” ?? - Lol, what does that even mean relative to my post?

As it was, Burns, who was his own man, copped plenty of scorn for not only defending against Johnson but even more so for losing the title to him - but he did defend against him.

He was also a busy champ - no hiatuses running for years. So, in those regards, you could say he was no Dempsey.

Nothing glossed over that was actually relevant to what I posted.

 

Not uncommon at all for racists to privately be quite fond of other races bodies, if you know what I mean. Sparring doesn't really prove anything. More importantly, when someone engages in racist behaviors like holding the color line in a sport, it's not terribly relevant to me how they felt in their heart. Sounds like Lyndon Johnson had some pretty backwards ideas in private, but he still desegregated a lot of public life in the U.S.

People are complicated, nuanced and will do and say conflicting things over their lives. But the fact is Dempsey's decision to not defend against Black contenders will be a stain on his legacy.

 

I agree with you last paragraph. He definitely should have had more fights against both black and white boxers instead of making movies and getting plastic surgery.