Why do people here think boxers can beat mma fighters in mma rules or street fight?

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by outtieDrake, Mar 13, 2023.



  1. outtieDrake

    outtieDrake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Canelo would get grounded by a strong fairly decent high school wrestler who is 16 and over. Canelo would get taken down, and stay down, then follow by ground and pound from mount position. As Canelo try to squirm his way up, he'll turn his back and the wrestler would use a very basic rear naked choke, forcing Canelo to tap. Why do so many boxing purist think having good hands is enough?

    Have any of you actually ever grappled before? Do you not know what happens when a white belt meets a higher white belt let alone a decent wrestler or a black belt? You are completely clueless if you think just being athletic or strong is enough.

    Mayorga 0-5
    James Toney 0-1
    Mercer 1-1
    Jimmerson 0-1
    Melton Bowen 0-1
    Julius Francis 0-1
    Butterbean 17-10 ( needed cross training and still got beat by bums.)
    Holly holm( cross trained plus kick boxing helped, did 3 years before turning pro.)
    Milo savage 0-1 (Gene Lebell )
    Sam Mcvey 1-0 ( mixed rules, he fought a fake japanese jujitsu guy, who was a fraud first. and then beat captain stevens after he submitted sam mcvey a bunch of times but was not counted as an instant win. )

    Claressa Shields (beaten by an average female fighter.)

    Roberto Duran vs Funaki ( Funaki stalled to make the fight interesting, soon as he shot a double, he secured the armbar and tapped Duran out.)


    99% of the times, a boxer who does not cross train, losses. Doesn't matter who it is, the very best boxers like Tyson admit this to be true.

    Other references Jack Johnson vs wrestler on footage youtube it.
    Boxers vs kick boxers.

    Masato vs Vince Phillips.

    Trevor Berbick vs japanese shoot fighter who dismantled his legs.
    Francis Botha 2-10 , had to cross train to get two wins, and even then, loss almost all his fights.

    Why boxing isn't enough. Boxers lean heavy on their lead leg, this makes it vulnerable to leg kicks and single leg takedowns. A boxer can compete in mma , but he/she needs to adjust their stance to check kicks and anticipate the sprawl, lowering their elevation, any boxer who fights upright will get taken down . I like the sweet science and its 1 aspect of mma, but it's not the be all end all, it's good for multiple attackers, but having no grappling knowledge at all still makes you an average human being if a high school athlete can whip you.
     
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  2. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    I mean, it is a boxing forum. Don't be surprised when a lot of people don't fully understand MMA. It's true; a boxer, in most cases, loses to an MMA fighter in a fight. The MMA fighter has a larger arsenal compared to a boxer, who is pretty limited in an all-goes fight. However, as seen in Ray Mercer vs. Tim Sylvia, it's not impossible. If the MMA fighter makes a mistake in close range to a boxer, they will pay dearly for it.

    Not knowing how to grapple doesn't make you an 'average human being' either, whatever that means. A good amateur boxer around that same age range can still whip most people in a street fight.
     
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  3. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member Full Member

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    Great post. Should probably be stickied so that we don't have to repeat this on every boxer vs mma thread.
     
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  4. outtieDrake

    outtieDrake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    its 2023 tho, all the arguments i see were flushed out a decade ago. By now i don't get how there are people who don't understand simple concept of grappling being easier to implement. Boxers hug and clinch all the time before they can even score a knock out. A mma fighter will likely tie up a boxer before he would get koed , even in a boxing match this is true, one shot hitter quitters in boxing are rare, even an average joe blow with a decent amount of toughness can last a few minutes with a world champion if they clinch enough times.

    boxers can beat a lot of the population but being able to lose to a teenager or even an untrained body builder with a half ass takedown. You at least can lose to a big enough margin of the population if the circumstances are right. but i get where you are coming from, boxers can still do amazing things in the streets.
     
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  5. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    An MMA fighter could definitely get caught by a boxer with good infighting knowledge if they're unwise in the clinch, it's not like they all just accept the clinch and wait for the ref to break it up. Old school boxers excelled in the clinch, and they used it to their advantage (Roberto Duran).You don't 'just clinch' someone who knows how to fight inside the clinch, any average joe would pay dearly. In the bare knuckle era, grappling was especially important. If you analyze the Belcher era, those are dudes who would definitely have had success in MMA.

    And again, a teenage boxer could also take out an untrained body builder. You see boxers schooling numerous wannabe tough body builders all the time.
     
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  6. drenlou

    drenlou Tres Delinquentes Full Member

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    And it works both ways. At least Holly Holm transitioned from being an Atg female boxer to UFC champion, partly due to her Athleticism and Martial arts background. Theres yet to be 1 pro MMA fighter to make a big splash in the boxing ring, but yeah its 2 totally different sports and should not be compared imo.
     
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  7. 3rdegree

    3rdegree Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I used to box, but I can put aside my love for the sport and objectively compare outcomes and skill sets to conclude that when boxers and UFC fighters tangle, 95% of the time, the MMA fighter emerges victorious, usually without so much as a scratch. What is amusing, however, is, without fail, someone will point to the fact that - Mercer knocked out Silvia and/or - and the misconception that with six months of takedown defense training, a good boxer would be able to defeat the most accomplished MMA fighters.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2023
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  8. cuchulain

    cuchulain VIP Member Full Member

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    Bruce Lee was asked what was the best all-round fighting style for defending yourself in a street fight.
    Not surprisingly, he recommended his own style, Jeet Kune do and also mentioned other forms of Kung fu and Karate, etc, but he added that it took years and years to become proficient in these.

    He advised that if you had less than a year to get ready, boxing was the best form of combat to study.
     
  9. MAD_PIGE0N

    MAD_PIGE0N ... banned Full Member

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    First, "MMA rules" can vary and I don't want to consider the bad UFC ones, as I see PRIDE's way more "mixed" and free. But whatever they are, if the MMA fighter isn't very good at grappling, even being able to deliver good kicks (mainly low kicks, as they're the worst a boxer can face), a striking contest can go for the boxer because of the overall better movement and positioning, angles as well. This is all very relative, as it can go very bad for the boxer right because of the kicks, knees, elbows the other fighter will surely be better at. But when it comes to a street fight, this has nothing to do with MMA and the fact one fighter can go for takedowns and grapple a boxer doesn't mean it'll do him any favor - never forget that a street fight can involve eye poking, groin strikes and all kind of things (strikes to parts of the body that can be crippling or lethal, or just too painful) no martial art allows, but are very legit when you're in a street fight. Ok, theoretically a complex ("MMA fighter") has always the better chance, but we've seen different in practice.
     
  10. outtieDrake

    outtieDrake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    he said 6 months of boxing and wrestling would beat a life long martial artist. he recognized wrestling cause he knew striking alone is not enough. Jeet Kune Do was early version of mma.
     
  11. outtieDrake

    outtieDrake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    the illegal moves argument is easy to debunk. Why do you think a boxer who fights with more limitation is better than a fighter who uses his whole body as a weapon?

    An mma fighter can groin kick with much better power and form, he can bite from top control, he could disarm a knife and use it against you with grappling. MMa fighters also do cheat and eye poke in actual fights.

    imo a boxer has a brief window to level a mma fighter at the start of a fight within close quarters. If the mma guy has the distance the awareness to defend, likely takes out the boxer on the floor or tying them up in guillotine with knees. So much of mma is improvising your entire body to inflict damage.
     
  12. MAD_PIGE0N

    MAD_PIGE0N ... banned Full Member

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    Just as easy to do such a move. Then the rest is just a theory, just as everything on the topic. As we've seen boxers beating and loosing to MMA fighters. As an MMA fighter may not be a master in anything, while a boxer is at least very good in that, so remember what Bruce Lee says about.

    As for being able to disarm a knife - that's a deep water.
     
  13. outtieDrake

    outtieDrake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    A boxer is a master of one but very bad at everything else. It's better to be a jack of all trades in a no rule situation.

    the exception does not disprove the rule. If Mercer rematched Sylvia in mma after that ko loss, Tim would still be a -300 favorite in the rematch. Tim proved that it's foolish to have a gentlemen's agreement and try to box a former world champion with hands only. He was a better grappler than Kimbo who tapped out Mercer with only two weeks of mma training. The only boxers who have legit beaten mma fighters, did cross training or they fought low level competition. You can't go by the 1%

    Grapplers can disarm most people , even people who train in police and military can do that, these bjj guys have amazing grip strength and can easily twist your wrist with massive pressure. Some of them can squeeze a watermelon to bits.
     
  14. MAD_PIGE0N

    MAD_PIGE0N ... banned Full Member

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    Mostly, this is all naive. Just because we rarely have style vs style fights, we can't judge. I am saying it again: depends on the MMA rules and a free fight is very different in any way. As for the BJJ - it's way overrated (I'm not underrating it). It's like telling you that a boxer can break a cheekbone or a jaw with a punch - doesn't mean he always does it.
     
  15. outtieDrake

    outtieDrake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    its' not overrated, this is a female choking boxers who cant grapple.
    https://youtube.com/shorts/z5UIYjZB9bE?feature=share


    They're not going 100% and no punches, but clearly, she has the grip to choke them, all done with tiny shoulders. A male bjj fighter would do them much worst. People don't understand how good these fighters are at wrapping you in a choke . A boxer who has no clue on over/unders, double unders, single collar , hip throws, and exploding your hips to keep your balance, the shifting of the weight etc, is getting rag dolled. Its kind of like a lion falling in the water with a shark, they have no shot unless the shark gets washed up on the beach.