Muhammad Ali vs Usyk who takes it?

I voted Ali i guess but Usyk would give him serious problems if I'm being honest with myself. Ali would have to be at 100% with speed and mobility or he's screwed

 

Ali relied on laying on the ropes for much of the latter rounds, you don't suppose Usyk could wear him out in the center of the ring?

 

Ali struggled badly with Karl Mildenburger. He had no concept on how to fight lefties.

 

Did he? How far ahead on the cards did you have Mildenberger when Ali stopped him?

Ali dropped him in the 5th, the 8th, the 10th and stopped him in the 12th ... so did you have Karl all-out dominating those other eight rounds?

 

"if I'm being honest with myself"

Most people never are with these imaginary matchups, there's zero cost to going against logic.

With a gun to your head, knowing what you know, are you taking the Mildenberger 1966 Ali over the 2018 Usyk? Would you really be surprised if Usyk won in one-sided fashion? But it's fine.

 

Prime Ali wins this by UD or late stoppage.

 

With a gun to my head, I would be stunned if 1966 Ali lost to 2018 Usyk in a "close" fight. Forget one-sided.

Usyk squeaked out a 12-round majority decision over Briedis that year - one judge had it 6-6, the other two had it 7-5 in favor of Usyk.

Ali was so dominant that year (five fights, five dominant wins over Chuvalo, Cooper, London, Mildenberger and Williams), he could drop a guy in three separate rounds (5, 8, 10) and stop him in the 12th ... and the view was Ali "struggled" with him.

If Ali struggled with Karl, what the hell did Usyk do with Brieidis?

I believe Usyk lost more rounds in his 12-round bout with Briedis than Ali did in 39 rounds against five opponents that year.

Who even knows if Usyk could go 15 rounds if he wasn't setting the pace. Everyone who ever fought in 15 rounders would tell you fighting 12 rounds and fighting 15 were VERY different.

1966 Ali all day.

 

You can't even judge Usyk with any accuracy in this era, let alone one 50-60 years ago with massive disadvantages relative to the modern day. Didn't you pick Joshua to KO Usyk in 1-2 rounds? And then to beat Usyk in the rematch? Assuming the first was a serious prediction, it was among the worst I've ever seen on this forum.

Ali was 4-3-1 ahead in non-KD rounds on the cards according to two of the three official judges. And it's no secret that Mildenberger was small and relatively chinny, knocked down in many fights. A bigger, iron-chinned opponent with an unprecedented engine wouldn't have been dropped once by Ali and a far superior southpaw to Mildenberger would have schooled Ali, who had virtually zero southpaw experience barring in the amateurs, where he very often lost to the southpaws he fought (including his only proper KO defeat).

And rounds are just one way of assessing a fight. Compubox reports that it was 154-144 in landed punches, with Ali throwing only 621 to Mildenberger's 538. Over the same period Usyk clocks over 900, against far stronger opposition than Mildenberger.

Usyk would have a vastly better chance of beating Ali over 15 than Ali would have of beating Usyk under 5 round WSB rules as Ali would have minimal time to adjust even to the limited degree that he possibly could before he'd lost most of the rounds. But it's fairest to compare 12 rounds as they both competed frequently under that format. I wouldn't pick fighters from 1900 over Ali because they sometimes went 50 rounds, it's always been an absurd argument to me.

 

1966 Ali dominated Chuvalo, Cooper, London, Mildenberger and Williams.

2018 Usyk won a majority decision against Brieidis, barely edging him 6-6 and 7-5 twice.

You post a video of Ali and Mildenberger ... where Ali drops him three times in three different rounds and stops him in the 12th as an example of all the "trouble" Ali would have with a southpaw ...

And you don't post a video of Usyk in 2018 barely edging Brieidis in a fight many thought Usyk lost?

It doesn't take a leap to know who would win between the 1966 Ali and the 2018 Usyk.

 

ALi refuses to donate $1million to Ukraine; negociations break down and Ali fights Wilder, Usyk fights AJ.

 

Ali ducks it when USKY adds a verbal clause into the contract that Ali has to sign up to fight in the vietnam war... for the VIET KONG

 

I would take the Mildenberger 1966 Ali over the Bellew 2018 Usyk, but only by a slight amount. Mildenberger was no Usyk, but there were a couple similarities. Always pawing with the lead and pressuring with feints and jabs along with bobbing his head constantly etc. Likewise Bellew is no Ali but there were a couple similarities. Low guard, coming over with the right hand counter, unorthodox head movement on the back pedel, being more mobile then most of Usyks opponents, etc. Both Ali and Usyk had problems with these respective fights.

 

Ali boxes the Irish buffoon's' ears off to an easy UD

 

Boxing was very crude in Alis era. Things have moved on and fighting usyk would be like trying to race a bugatti in a 1960s ferrari. Usyk far too advanced a fighter, footwork, angles, stamina he would have Ali baffled. Easy work for usyk

 

You can say that if you like, it costs you nothing. But the rest is a complete misanalysis of Usyk-Bellew. Usyk took barely any damage and sparked Bellew in 8 (the fastest and most brutally he ever KO'd a cruiser of note). He started slowly (which led to underestimation: against AJ he started very fast) while making Bellew work hard from the start for minimal success. Usyk almost doubled Bellew on Compubox, whereas Ali was almost 50-50 with Mildenberger by that metric and took a lot more flush, while going 11.5. Hunter would be a better point of comparison.