Right, but mediocre guys NEVER beat better fighters on the better fighters' best nights. I thought that was completely clear based on the initial post picking Spinks over Ali. There's no point of the thread if you're just going to run down a list of better fighters who were better than someone who ended up having a mediocre career. That's why they're better and the other fighters were mediocre. Jimmy Young had a mediocre career overall. But when he fought Ali and Foreman and Norton ... those three weren't having their best nights of their careers, too. Right? Was the Ali who fought Young Ali on HIS BEST NIGHT? Is Ali-Young your go-to BEST Ali performance? We're just recognizing mediocre fighters on the one night where they were unstoppable. It's supposed to be an enjoyable exercise. Like "Remember that one night when that guy everyone thought would lose was incredible?" I didn't see this as yet another thread where people are crapping all over the mediocre guys. We know they were mediocre. It's about the one night they weren't.
It may have been, but you've taken my post out of context. My reply was to the quote below from the OP- and nothing else. This content is protected ..and I disagreed.
I dissagree with your assertion Leon on that night would have beaten almost any HW of the 80s. Ali was past it and not in shape
Aside from Holmes and Tyson though, none of the 80s heavies ever showed this kind of determination. Carl Williams, James Tillis, Buster Douglas, Tony Tubbs, and Tyrell Biggs didn't have the firepower to beat Spinks. He would have been far too busy for them and overwhelmed each of them. Gerry Cooney, Frank Bruno, Michael Dokes, Bonecrusher Smith, and Renaldo Snipes all have the power to knock Spinks out, but doesn't mean they would. Spinks could definitely take Cooney, Bruno, Smith, and Dokes out if he got to them early. He could easily outwork Snipes. I don't see him beating Tim Witherspoon or Pinklon Thomas. Mike Weaver is a total toss-up. Spinks could really pound him bad, but Weaver has that one shot that could put Leon down for 10. Berbick-well, we know how that goes. Could go either way. You're probably right, I did overstate it. But going with my gut feeling, I would say of the 14 heavyweights I just mentioned, I would guess the Ali version of Spinks would beat 10 of them. Excluding Holmes and Tyson of course who I don't think he could defeat at any point in time.
I think you're delusional ... Leon Spinks did not beat one quality heavyweight his entire career ... Coetzee and Holmes showed what a huge jump he was from being a real contender .. he struggled for his life against Scott LeDoux and Animal Lopez .. he was a glorified street fighter that learned zero technique and had moderate power and a decent at best chin at heavyweight ... the one thing he had was a huge heart ... he beats none of those guys ... sheesh ..
Leon Spinks beat the 55-2 World Heavyweight Champion Muhammad Ali in a blistering 15-rounder that was the Fight of the Year. If Ali wasn't a quality heavyweight, then six of the top eight heavyweights weren't either, because he had beaten all six, including Shavers four months earlier. Ali even went for the kill in the final round, and the kid with six pro wins, after nearly a full hour of fighting, took it all in the 15th round and fought right back. Excellent stuff. This content is protected And Leon beat the #1 contender two years later, as well. This has gotten stupid.
There's certainly greater displays of stamina out there, but I've never seen a fighter push through so much tiredness before, the way Leon did. You can tell he can barely stand, can barely hold his arms up, yet he kept punching; not only throwing an occasional big haymaker, but flurrying, like a man whose just started a fight almost. It sounds obscure, but guys who've seen the fight know exactly what I'm talking about. Leon didn't EVEN train hard enough for this fight, as you can see from how tired he is in the last few rounds, and he kept going. It's like he dipped into some hidden reservoir of energy, but it was really all resolve.
Agree with that rationale, Pugs, and agree with the nomination by those criteria of @Cecil of Honeyghan. While by no means 'mediocre', Barry McGuigan gets a lot of praise as if he spent a career turning in the kind of performance he did against Pedroza. Like Honeyghan, it all came together for Barry that one night. Both men's reigns saw them sail much closer to the wind against far lesser fighters than those they had won the title from before they inevitably came unstuck..
McGuigan is another good example, which you qualified very well - a very good "real life - as good as it gets" fit for the premise. Not in reference to McGuigan but the term mediocre can be interpreted in many ways. Being uber tough and ultra-competitive are by no means mediocre attributes, part of the whole package really, but if one separates and isolates those traits from a skill set that, in itself might not be considered too impressive - even perhaps mediocre, it can open the doors to a wider range of answers to the thread question. Perhaps another example which may not be the perfect fit or even a good fit in terms of strict adherence to the criteria could be Jeff Harding, noting in particular his first fight vs Dennis Andries and his Rocky style victory.
You guys really simply are clueless of this era .. Leon was trained and ready but he was exposed for what he was, a small heavyweight, a novice with an average chin who had no business being in the ring with quality heavyweights and was the epitome of a guy being in the right place at the right time for one night .. yes he may have been a very good cruiserweight if he trained and was properly managed but he didn't and wasn't and didn't have one career victory over a quality heavyweight for the rest of his career. Ali was shot.
