Which heavyweight champions fought the best fighter on the planet most often.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Mar 27, 2023.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Not who fought the best available opponents the most often; not who fought a top five contender the most ofetn; who fought the number one ranked fighter or lineal champion most often? Which fought the best fighter in the world except themselves the most often?

    To achieve this i've used TBRB when available, Ring pre-TBRB and when neither are available (Dempsey and Johnson) i've made some guesses. I'm very very up for being corrected here, wade in.

    I'm only looking at people who have held the title who also made my top 16 at the weight. Note that i'm respecting the sanctity of the lineal title, like a total wank, so none of this is even true, but hopefully you've picked up the gist by now.

    James J Jeffries: 1-1
    Bob FItzsimmons (W),
    Jack Johnson (L)

    Jack Johnson: 1-0
    Tommy Burns (W).

    Jack Dempsey:1-2
    Jess Willard (W),
    Gene Tunney (L),
    Gene Tunney (L).

    Joe Louis:9-1
    James Braddock (W)
    Max Schmeling (W)
    Tony Galento (W)
    Bob Pastor (W)
    Billy Conn (W)
    Billy Conn (W)
    Tami Mauriello (W)
    Joe Walcott (W)
    Joe Walcott (W)
    Ezzard Charles (L).

    Rocky Marciano:4-0
    Joe Walcott (W),
    Joe Walcott (W),
    Ezzard Charles (W),
    Archie Moore (W).

    Sonny Liston:2-2
    Floyd Patterson (W)
    Floyd Patterson (W)
    Muhammad Ali (L)
    Muhammad Ali (L)

    Muhammad Ali:8-2
    Sonny Liston (W)
    Sonny Liston (W)
    Floyd Patterson (W)
    Ernie Terrell (W)
    Zora Folley (W)
    Joe Frazier (L)
    George Foreman (W)
    Ken Norton (W)
    Leon Spinks (W)
    Larry Holmes (L)

    Joe Frazier:2-3
    Jimmy Ellis (W)
    Muhammad Ali (W)
    George Foreman (L)
    Muhammad Ali (L)
    Muhammad Ali (L)

    George Foreman:2-2
    Joe Frazier (W)
    Muhammad Ali (L)
    Evander Holyfield (L)
    Mike Moorer (W)

    Larry Holmes:1-1
    Muhammad Ali (W)
    Michael Spinks (L)

    Mike Tyson:1-1
    Michael Spinks (W)
    Lennox Lewis (L)

    Evander Holyfield:2-2-1
    James Douglas (W)
    Riddick Bowe (L)
    Riddick Bowe (W)
    Lennox Lewis (D)
    Lennox Lewis (L)

    Lennox Lewis:4-0-1
    Shannon Briggs (W)
    Evander Holyfield (D)
    Evander Holyfield (W)
    Hasim Rahman (W)
    Vitali Klitschko (W)

    Wladimir Klitschko:3-1
    Chris Byrd (W)
    Alexander Povetkin (W)
    Kubrat Pulev (W)
    Anthony Joshua (L)
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2023
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Some questions:

    1 - Who is missing?
    2- Who should be added to the lists? Any #1 contenders I left off?
    3 - Was Fitz really the best fighter for the entire Jeffries reign? Or did Johnson start to edge him out and if so, when?
     
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  3. Terror

    Terror free smoke Full Member

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    Really good list. I think the #1 contender thing is a bit deceptive as it doesn't account for qualitative evaluations of skill, or the eye test. With that in mind, I'd take a bunch of guys off the list.

    I'd strike Floyd P., Earnie T, Zora F, and Leon from Ali's record as being the "best fighter alive". Jimmy Ellis has to go from Frazier's record in my opinion. Rocky is kind of dubious bc those guys were faded and had already gone to war with one another before he rose to title contention. Louis has a similar thing going, the Conn fights were good but he looked bad and I cannot say Tony Galento is the best fighter alive and not give Holyfield credit for fighting guys like Qawi who is miles ahead of Galento, Baer, Braddock level guys in ability. It's hard to make additions to the list because, for example, Holyfield fought a ton of tough guys but I can't consider many of them "the best around at the time."
     
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  4. JackSilver

    JackSilver Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Holyfield was thought to be shot when Tyson fought him,having been KOed by Bowe a year earlier.
     
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  5. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Were none of Larry Holmes title defences against the no.1 contender? I know the Cooney fight was heavily hyped, but that doesn't mean he was the no.1 contender, I guess.

    Was Holyfield still ranked above Grant in April 2000 when Lewis defended against the latter?

    Even if Ali wasn't the no.1 contender to Liston, surely the rematch counts as a loss for Liston by this measure?

    Was Patterson not the no. 1 contender for the Liston rematch? Same question for Liston going into his rematch with Ali?
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I don't think so is the answer to all of these questions, but if you know different i'm all ears.
     
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Although Ali and Liston are in there.
     
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  8. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Deontay Wilder fought the Lineal Heavyweight Champion Tyson Fury three times.

    Fury was the Lineal champ (and the Ring champ at the start of that year) in 2018.

    Fury was became the Lineal Champ again (according to Ring) when he defeated Wilder in their rematch (they were #1 Fury and #2 Wilder at the time according to Ring) in 2020.

    And Wilder challenged the Lineal/Ring Champ Fury in their third meeting in 2021.

    He's 0-2-1.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2023
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  9. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No problem, I thought I read Liston as 1-0 when I replied, I can see he's 1-2 now with the Ali losses included, which is what I was asking about my 3rd & 4th lines.
     
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  10. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    Does the 'colored' title count? You can argue that their legitimacy as champ was as important as the regular champion.
     
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  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think i might have added them after i put the main post up. I did do some things so that makes the most sense.
     
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  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It counts if the man doing the fighting was the number one contender, yes.
     
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  13. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    Did they even have rankings in Johnson's era? Where did McVey and Jeanette rank?
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    They didn't really have official rankings, no, although sometimes a newspaper would take a top 5 or 6 from a boxing celebrity for a certain division.
     
  15. JackSilver

    JackSilver Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I dunno about that but if the list is including fighting either the number 1 fighter or the lineal champ, then you gotta add Ali to Holmes list as well. Ali might have been shot as hell when Holmes beat him but he was still the lineal champ.
     
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