Ingemar Johansson vs Sonny Liston 1959

I think that is because Billy turned pro 139b aged 17. When he fought Joe Louis, billy was actually unbeaten as a heavyweight.

 

According to Floyd, Ingo punched harder than Sonny. For Floyd, Liston was a stylistical nightmare. Liston could walk straight through him. Ingos right hand will force Liston to be more cautious than against Floyd or he will likely end up on the canvas. Don’t tell me that he would just shake off Ingos best shots while being dropped by Ali. As great as Ali was, he was not the biggest puncher.

 

The thing is, though, when Cooper faced Johansson he wasn't beating Zora Folley, he was getting knocked out by Joe Bygraves. This wasn't a case of a world class fighter who just hadn't had a chance to show it yet. Cooper didn't have a rating because he wasn't yet good enough to earn one.

 

My point is fighters improve with experience.

Tony Zale lost 6 out 8 when he was vastly more experienced than Liston was vs Marshall. Those 6 losses were all to fighters vastly inferior to those he went on to beat later in his career after he improved, including to a boxer in his 2nd fight. No one who was both reasonable and knowledgeable on the subject matter, would factor those fights into assessing how good a prime Zale was.

Liston had contested 7 pro fights when he lost an 8 round SD to Marshall, who he went on to beat by KO and UD. To cite this fight as relevant to assessing a prime Liston is, well, I'll be polite, it's clutching at straws.

 

Regarding the quality of Johanssons opposition it could be added that it was generally good and how many other boxers can you think of that never fought an opponent with a losing record? So while his number of fights is pretty low, it was not padded with tomato cans. One thing to keep in mind.

 

Sonny Liston did successfully absorb the punches of Cleveland Williams and Mike DeJohn without going down.Both Williams and DeJohn were at least the equal of Johansson where punching power is concerned.Liston had a tremendous chin.Very,very unlikely Liston would be dropped by Ingo.
As for the Ali fight there is a consensus of opinion that there was something not quite legit about that knockdown.

 

Cleveland Williams was a bigger puncher than Ali too

 

Good point.

 

What was the best punch Williams landed against Liston? Round and fight?

 

Hence why posters without an agenda only worry about rankings at the time they fought.

 

I'm not sure, I wasn't taking the punches.

The left hook at 1:54 of this video (from the 1st round of their first fight) certainly made a considerable noise & aroused an audible "Woo" from the commentator -

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There were plenty of other heavy looking shots in that round alone. Not only was Liston unhurt, they didn't even make him blink. Liston having an extremely strong chin is both long established and not reasonably debatable.

 

It's hard to know of course or what Liston was feeling but it doesn't look like Williams actually landed his best shot to really test the chin of Liston.

 

Williams was a very big puncher who landed plenty of meaty shots without any visible impact on Sonny.

Questioning Liston's chin is about as disingenuous as calling Ingo featherfisted.

 

I'm not questioning that he had a good chin. However I don't believe that Ingo couldn't hurt Liston. He had devastating power. Look what he did to Machen if you don't believe it and the only other fighter to stop Machen was Frazier and Kirkman in Machen's last fight. Frazier needed 10 rounds. Johansson's right was something else.

 

I wouldn't say it's impossible Ingo could hurt Liston, either. It's not the most likely outcome in a fight between the 2, though.