Did Lewis have a better resume than Ali? (Breakdown)

Cracking post. That is utterly astonishing.

 

Thanks for that.

 

I don't think Cooper was top ten Ring ranked for the 2nd Ali fight,but I believe London was no 10?

 

If your shortlist of biggest victories includes Shannon Briggs, no, you aren't in company with Ali.

...and I like Lennox Lewis quite a bit.

 

Norton wouldn't be top 30 without having beaten Ali.

 

Agreed.

Ali was beating enough quality fighters at that point for Norton's win over (and he arguably deserved the decision in at least one of their other 2 fights) him to be reasonably credited to Ken's all time standing.

Ali having a greater resume, from an historical perspective, than Lewis, is unaffected by your observation.

 

I think it helps Ali’s case if the Norton fights never happened. He’s still number one though.

 

There were many controversial wins in Ali's resume. He clearly got away with an illegal amount of clinching in Frazier 2. And given how he asked his corner to cut his gloves off and wanted to quit before round 15 in Manila, only to Futch throw in the towel despite Joe's protests, I'd say he never beat Joe. He was awarded two Ws against him officially - but never beat him.

Then there are the two Ws he got against Norton. One of them was so blatant even Ali himself admitted it wasn't his fight to win. Then there was, of course, the Young fight. Jimmy beat the breaks off Ali, throwing and landing more than twice as many punches, yet he was still blatantly robbed. That robbery was the worst in HW history, alongside the first Lewis-Holyfield bout.

 

That's the perfect summary.

Ali was "lucky" in the sense that, even though the nineties were a strong era in the heavies, his era in the seventies was most probably the strongest ever. You can only beat who is available/in front of you, and Lewis did all that - Ali just had that more legends in the seventies to beat.

That said, to me, Kronk-style Lewis is the perfect HW who would have been the absolute top dog in any era. I'd favour him H2H against anyone in history, seeing him winning at least 7 out of 10 times against anyone, including Ali. So while Ali had the greatest resume, to me, Lewis is the greatest HW in terms of how talented, strong, capable and complete a fighter he was. Had he been fighting in Ali's era, no doubt he would have reigned supreme just the same.

 

Frazier went nose to nose with Chuvalo and Bonavena who were just as durable as Tua and McCall. That didn't stop Frazier from battering Chuvalo and beating Bonavena convincingly twice. Simply presenting Frazier with an iron jawed target isn't going to deter him.

 

As for Lewis resume, he lacks depth outside of a few noteworthy wins over prime Briggs, Tua, Ruddock, etc. His best A level opponents were pretty old. Mercer was a controversial win that could have gone the other way. He had a very great sendoff beating Vitali who'd go on to have a HOF career.

But then of course we can't gloss over his losses. He had less than Ali, but his were arguably worse getting brutally KOd twice almost the exact same way both times to inferior opponents. Ali lost very competitive bouts by decision suffering knockdowns, broken jaws, etc and then beat those opponents twice. The Holmes/Berbick losses are irrelevant. Ali also had a great sendoff becoming a 3x champ against Spinx.

 

There is absolutely nothing in the career of Muhammad Ali to suggest he was a quitter. He had nothing left against a peak Larry Holmes and let him beat on him for ten rounds until Herbert Muhammad who was watching the fight at ringside sent a note to Angelo Dundee to stop the fight.

 

As to "illegal clinching" Lennox Lewis used his immense size advantage to smother a deeply faded Tyson until he was no longer a threat and then he went to work. I say that not to denigrate Lennox who is one of my five favorite fighters but to point out it's part of the game. There also are counters.

 

I would say that Ali's resume is better but that Lewis faced the more dangerous opponents, an absolutely stunning array of powerpunchers who, even if they couldn't do much else, had power to spare.

But all in all, Ali's resume is the standard which I don't think we will see surpassed in our lifetime.

 

Back to "illegal clinching" Camacho had nothing but heart and rough house tactics including holding and trying to literally pull DeLahoya down in their match. It didn't stop Oscar from winning almost every single round. There are counters.