Did Lewis have a better resume than Ali? (Breakdown)

Ali's absolute apex was pre-exile.

Ali's post exile wins contribute substantially to his win resume & all time standing, so I agree we can't ignore his losses to Frazier & Norton (the Spinks, Holmes & Berbick losses shouldn't factor into his standing at all) when assessing his ranking.

It's arguable neither Ali or Lewis lost whilst at their absolute peak, but both lost 2 fights whilst they were in & around their prime years (certainly Ali was no closer to his absolute peak than Lewis was to his), both avenged each loss, Ali to greater fighters than Lewis. So, why are Ali's losses to Frazier & Norton the difference between his & Lewis's resume, in your view?

 

Some people feel that way about the Mercer and Hoylfield fights. I didn't call them robberies but they were close and many people think the decision should've gone the other way. So you could argue Lewis got the benefit of the doubt in close fights. If those fights aren't gifts, then neither are Ali's fights.

I'm dead serious. Young didn't beat Ali. There are several threads breaking this down. Young robbed himself by constantly ducking his head out of the ropes and being too passive and on the defensive. The ref even gave Young a standing count for ducking his head. Young admitted he did this to keep the pressure off of him. You can't say you beat the champion if you're hiding under the ropes and using a loophole to avoid getting hit.

 

first of all Ali avenged his first 2 losses against Frazier & Norton not once but twice.The first fight against Frazier was very close fight against Norton first fight Norton easily Won.The Lost to Spinks Ali was 36 & already showing signs of Parkinsons syndrome which is cause by brain trauma yet he still comes back & wins rematch.He won the fight against Foreman (who destroyed both Frazier & Norton by way of 2nd rd kos) & wins HW belt for second time.Lets not forget he lost 3 & a half years of his prime when they took his belt away.He beat Foreman & Shavers the top 2 hardest punchers in HW history he beat another big puncher in Sonny Liston twice.Ali bar none is the greatest HW all time I have Lewis 4th.

 

I think people have this misconception about McCall, he wasn't some overly aggressive fighter that would take 1 to land 1. He could be quite a cautious cagey fighter, and whilst he had a good chin I don't think having a good chin makes him an automatic favourite over Frazier.

 

Do you have links to this? I feel it's a very poor decision and a worse verdict than Norton 3. Young beat the champion in many eyes because he won more rounds.

 

Not even just that. One thing seldom brought up about that fight, is Young would frequently counter Ali with combos CLEARLY below the belt line and nothing was said or done about it. Others may've scored these flurries for Young but I didn't because they were illegal.

 

I never noticed the low blows. I know when Wepner rabbit punched him he rabbit punched him back but I don't think he'd punch a guy in the nuts even if a guy punched him there first.

 

McCall with out question is in the top 3 for having the best chin in heavyweight history.Lewis was known as being a big big puncher & landed big right hands against McCall in second fight when he just stood there refusing to fight & taking lewis right hands with no head movement.Tyson couldn't drop him in sparring.Frazier had a good chin but with limits,Foreman destroyed him in 2 rds knocking him down 6 times.Ali was a good puncher but not known for a one punch knock out man & staggered Frazier in their 3rd & final fight in the 13th & 14th rds.

 

Yes McCall had a good chin but he wasn't some warrior type fighter that would take 1 to land 1. He was often a cagey fighter, and at times would lose concentration in the ring see the Holmes fight for reference.

As I said having a good chin doesn't automatically mean McCall wins the fight. Chuvalo, Quarry, Bonevena, all good chins and Frazier beat all of them.

 

I didn't say he was a great boxer he wasn't even a really good HW.As i stated before though he did have one of the best chins in HW history.Lewis had a big right hand & he landed clean right hands against a crying McCall & nothing.One of the reasons he was Tyson's sparring partner was because he took everything Tyson could dish out & made a great sparring partner for him.The 3 boxers you mention above did have good chins (Chuvalo of the 3 had the best chin) but all 3 had been stopped & more than once.McCall was never stopped as far as being hurt & KO.

 

The thing you have to realize and sometimes people don't take note of this, is that McCall never really took a beating in his career. He wasn't a fighter willing to go into the lions den and take 2 to land 1, whilst i'm not disputing that McCall didn't possess a very good chin i think people may of put his chin on too much of a pedestal.

Bruno shook McCall up early in there fight with a right hand and then McCall went into his shell.

Seldon had McCall pretty badly hurt in there fight as i recall.

Mavrovic took flush punches off Lewis without blinking aswell.

For me fighters like Mercer who took sustained punches off huge punchers like Lewis, Morrison, without blinking and kept coming forward are much more proven in that regard.

 

Lewis was a great fighter no mistake, but Ali was a one off. Never to be repeated imo.

 

I have Mercer in my top 3 best chins amoung HW as well.Mercer won his fight against Burt Cooper who broke Mercers jaw in their fight Mercer still fought back & won.