Ingemar Johansen vs Cleveland Williams

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A fine read from previous years. I'm in McGrains boat in that i think we'd need a trilogy to sort this one.

 

I feel Williams has size, reach and speed as well as a fast starter .. obviously both guys are huge punchers ... I favor Williams early but could go either way with a single shot ..

 

Around 40th is more than fair. Obviously there are a couple of guys getting around now that will end up above him. Only beating three ranked fighters in his short career has got to sting him and getting stopped in his two subsequent fights against the guy he did beat and is considered his best win hurts too. Well he only has two notable wins truth be told.

You look at a guy like Buster Douglas and go hmmmmmmm. He actually beat a reigning ATG many considered invincible. He's thin as well on wins over contenders but has some fair fringe wins and that win over Tyson is HUGE. Ingemar would hardly beat guys like Tyson and Holyfield and he'd sure have his hands full with the likes of Page, Tucker and Berbick. Patterson would struggle to beat the douglas Tyson fought. So there's quite a few good fighters down in the 40-60's that depending on criteria could put pressure on Ingo.

 

Williams hands down.

 

P.S Don't tell Choklab that. Ha Ha.

 

Lol. I know what choklab thinks about that, and I don't care!

 

We should send Choklab a huge photo of The Big Cat. Ha Ha.

 

Short brutal fight that absolutely could go either way, depends on who clobbers who first. I think folks here go overboard sometimes on what might have been with Williams but Lord, could he hit and I think of Ingo twitching on the mat after getting utterly cold-cocked by Patterson …

 

Yeah Cleveland wasn't the be all and end all but against Ingo he doesn't exactly have to be. Both are a little brittle and an effort akin to those against Liston would see him as a very live dog. Ingo's sure nothing amazing.

 

Williams was an overrated slugger. He had power but could never land his best shots when it mattered.

His record speaks for itself. He was fed with tomato cans to build up wins. Have a look at boxrec. He kept fighting guys with losing records or making their pro debut until a very late stage in his career.

Ingo on the other hand was European champ by fight 15 and world champ in his 22nd. Williams was the protected fighter, not Johansson.

I don't see how Williams can deal Johansson with his quicker feet, higher boxing iq and better timing. This would have been easier than Machen.

 

I love that notion!

 

I would love to be a fly on the wall. Ha Ha.

 

Sometimes I wonder if Ingo’s cousins post on this forum. I’ll say what I said in the other contentious thread. He was a footnote in heavyweight championship history. He was photogenic, he chased tush which people romanticize, he had a big right hand and … I’m treading dangerously here, I know … he’s in a certain demographic. But honestly … IMO Jim Braddock outpoints him laughably over 15 rounds and Ingo doesn’t lay a glove on him.

 

I mostly agree with you. I've never thought he was anything special. He took a lazy Patterson by surprise one time, and got wiped up in the two following bouts.

 

Braddock was gifted a shot whereas Johansson earned his chance the hard way by beating the best guys including Machen who he knocked out in round 1.
Braddock had 52 wins and 26 losses. Take away the first couple of years when he fought nobodies and you will see that he lost about as often as he won.
Johansson beat every man he faced on the other hand and didn't keep losing to nobodies.
I doubt that Braddock will be playing with Ingo.
If being undisputed heavyweight champion only makes you a footnote, where does that put a guy like Williams?