Zora Folley vs. Larry Holmes

He was ranked by ring magazine in their top 10 for like a combined 11 years I think. And for a while was even top 3. Handled boxers pretty well as seen against Eddie Machen. Would have been interesting to see what folley might have done with more durability and a bit more power

 

1. He actually handled moving targets fairly well as seen by his bouts against Machen, which brings me to my next point.

2. Folley's weaknesses weren't necessarily boxers as Magoo alluded to above, they were punchers. So I think saying Holmes is the worst match-up for him other than a prime Foreman, is odd to say the least. Especially given that we know just how he did against Liston. Are you honestly saying Holmes could improve upon Liston's performance?

 

Folley was one of the most passive fighters Ive ever seen. Holmes would pick him apart and either stop him late or widely outpoint him in a very boring fight.

 

His record is actually quite solid with a lot of wins over the names of the time. I'd love to know how many wins he has over top 10 contenders as i reckon it would be a respectable tally.

 

@SolomonDeedes?

 

It'd be a fairly painful job as there's a lot of possibles in there.

 

Very interesting story Richard. Folley, Machen, and Liston, the top three contenders at one point, all died within a year and a half of each other under suspicious and devastating circumstances.

 

Not sure exactly who was ranked at the time but he did beat
- Chuvalo
- Machen
- Dejohn x 2
- Miteff
- Daniels
- Cleroux x 2
- Zech
- B. Foster
- Henry Cooper
- D. jones

He also got wins over green up and coming versions of Henry Clark and Oscar Bonavena. It should also be noted that many felt folley deserved the nod in the draw he got with Mildenberger. There were probably others but I don’t know enough about anyone else to list them. So yeah, he had a lot of big wins and mingled with some of the greats both in victory and defeat.

 

This story is such bull****. If you actually see that fight youd see Mildenberger was the aggressor, threw more, landed more, and landed the harder punches. Folley laid back and just waited waited waited and he could have easily been DQd for fouling as well, particularly headbutts. I am absolutely mystified by the American press reports regarding that fight.

 

Ok. Jeez

 

Folley was a fine technician but perhaps lacked some much-needed aggression - as already highlighted. Even so, Zora could punch when he let the hands go and had a particularly hard, fast and accurate right hand.

An example of "passivity" perhaps was when he cracked Bonavena with the right hand at the end of a round. Oscar was going down for all money but Zora caught him mid fall, allowing Ringo to remain upright and hobble back to his corner.

It reminded of some of Patterson's more charitable moments - like hitting Ellis to the body with some half-hearted punches and then rubbing the targeted with his glove as if to say "There, there, is that better now?"

Some very interesting psyches going around in the 60s - specifically talking top fighters like Folley, Machen, Williams and Patterson.

Anyway, I also favor Larry but it would at least be interesting to see if and by how much Folley's right hand might disturb Holmes who wasn't exactly El Radar when it came to evading that particular punch.

 

Excellent post. Holmes struggled with quite a lot of people, he was supposed to walk through for many of the reasons you cited above.

But I’m supposed to believe that he’s going through walk through Folley as he did Evangelista and Occasio, and is the worst match up for him (ahead of Liston) barring Foreman?

I’m no mathematician but somethings not adding up.

 

Folley had a superb right hand as seen by Hanza's excellent little tribute

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Interesting given how overwhelmingly and to the man the press supported Folley.

"Veteran Zora Folley gave young Karl Mildenberger a boxing lesson Friday night but the judges evened it up and called it a draw - a verdict that stunned most of the 12,000 fans that jammed the Messehalle here to watch the two highly ranked heavyweights in what was billed as an elimination match. Folley carved out cuts under Mildenberger's eyes and repeatedly scored with solid left jabs and straight right hands over the southpaw efforts of the German challenger. By the end of the 7th round Mildenberger had cuts under both eyes while Folley bled from the nose as a result of Mildenberger's left. Referee Otto Nispel took it upon himself to stop the fight time and again to warn Folley on butting and in the 8th round Nispel stopped the fight while he took Mildenberger to his corner and wiped the blood off his face so a doctor could come to the ringside and examine the cuts. Mildenberger, although clearly outclassed, never stopped trying and absorbed a tremendous amount of punishment from the American. He was still trying gamely in the 9th and 10th while Folley was content to coast and that was all the judges seemingly needed." -European Stars & Stripes

• Unofficial Stars & Stripes scorecard - 7-2-1 Folley
• The UPI reported that Folley, "appeared to have the upper hand against his 26 year old opponent." While the AP reported that Folley, "appeared to have piled up a good margin. He gave the German a battering in the 7th and 8th rounds."

Post fight comments

• "When the referee stopped the fight to examine the cuts, that gave Mildenberger time to recuperate." -Bill Swift, Folley's manager, claiming that Folley had hurt Mildenberger with a flurry of hard shots to the head just before the referee intervened.

• "I thought I won, but this isn't as bad as the decision I lost to Brian London in England. When you fight away from home you have to contend with this." -Zora Folley

 

I'm convinced this guy has all the fights he claims to have. I'm not convinced however, that he actually knows what he's watching.

Still remember his laughable take on the Liston-Martin bout when he said Liston had the face of a quitter and multiple people had to correct him.