The Joe Louis vs Billy Conn struggle - possible/probable whys & wherefores.

Conn was just that good IMO. Louis might've had a crazy schedule but those weren't very competitive fights.

 

After losing to Schmeling, up until retiring after JJW 2, Louis went 34-0 over 12-years, including 26-0 in world title fights.

As brilliant as he was, he was human. He'd have had fights where he was carrying niggles and injuries, fights that coincided with stressful periods in his personal life, fights where he became complacent and/or underestimated his opponent and fights where the style match up favoured his opponent. He would have had fights where more than one of those things applied simultaneously.

Yet he defended his titles more times over a longer period than any lineal champion in history, not just at HW, but at any weight. Even when one or more of the above factors were against him, facing a world class opponent, he still won.

Like every fighter in history, there were fights when he exceeded expectations, e.g. Schmeling 2, and nights when he fell below them and his normal standards, e.g. Conn 1. The mark of a great champion is finding a way to win on those off nights.

As for the specific reasons Louis performed below his usual standard in Conn 1, beyond stating the obvious that some off nights during an 11 year reign are inevitable, my guess is it was a combination of :

1) Complacency and undestimating Conn - I've read that Louis was more focused on the fight not appearing like an unfair mismatch, rather than concentrating on how he'd win it, and wanted to come in under 200lbs so the optics of the weight disparity didn't seem so extreme;
2) Weight - Linked to point 1 and as per the reasons you postulate John.
3) Bad style match up - whilst it's somewhat of a myth that Conn ran/outboxed Louis on the outside, he actually crowded Louis quite a bit, Louis was a puncher. He liked to have his feet planted and to get set to throw his awesome combinations. Conn wasn't running, but he was always active, always either moving his feet or punching, stopping Joe from getting set and keeping him off balance, making it difficult for Louis to fight his usual fight.
4) Conn was a brilliant fighter who fought a terrific fight- no supplementary commentary required here.

Yet, despite these factors, Louis won by KO. His record against Billy Conn is 2-0 (2). I.e. whilst the journey wasn't perfect, the final outcome in terms of results were exactly that.

People often use the Conn fight to undermine Louis. On the contrary, for the reasons I've laid out above, I think the Conn fights, when viewed with balanced context, give an insight into what a great champion Louis was.

More title defences and a longer reign than any champion, at any weight, in all of boxing history, doesn't happen by accident.

 

I wanted to rewatch the fight before commenting.

Louis was definitely sub par in my eyes - a curiously subdued performance until it became urgent to act.

I saw many opportunities for Louis to land head shots but he wasn’t pulling the trigger. While Conn was boxing very well I didn’t necessarily see Billy’s evasive efforts as the ONLY reason for Louis not throwing more shots.

Even in close, Louis wasn’t exercising his proven capabilities to land short, powerful head shots. Rather, he seemed to be heavily inclined to only gun for the body (which he did do very successfully).

So, that’s how I saw the fight materially. A sub par Louis who patiently but ultimately caught up with Conn.

Louis’ body shots and Conn’s movement took their toll and eventually set Billy up for the KO. Conn didn’t blow it - rather, he did exceedingly well but again, Joe simply caught up.

The question then is WHY was Joe so flat?

As already highlighted, Joe’s fight schedule was one of heavy volume and high frequency.

As such, even before addressing the quality of opposition, probabilities dictate the greater likelihood of a less than an outstanding performance from time to time.

Sort of along the lines of some older threads we used to have “If superior fighter X fought inferior fighter Y a given number of times, how many fights might fighter Y win?

Now I don’t want to be a conspiracy theorist but what possibility is there that Joe might’ve carried Conn to some degree, at least early in the fight?

That might’ve allowed Billy to build up a head of steam that Joe didn’t project for - thus causing the fight to get away from Louis a bit, making it harder for Louis to reign it back in when he decided to step up his game.

Now before anyone starts grabbing for a straight jacket (I’m an XL btw), IF we can accept the possibility that Joe came in a bit lighter in in order to make the contest “appear” more equitable in terms of size - OR even to literally make the contest more equitable and fair - then it’s not out to lunch to think that Louis perhaps could’ve pedalled himself back for x number of rounds in the early going.

All in all, the fight was an anomaly for Joe, imo.

Certainly not a fight to be overweighted disproportionally to Joe’s disadvantage or necessarily extrapolated into success for every other Tom, Dick and Harry mover types.

One last thing (“FFS, finally!” I hear you all say) another errant conclusion for this fight is “If little Billy Conn could do that, imagine what a sized up Billy Conn type might’ve done…”

That conclusion ignores the obvious fact that Conn’s (lesser) size was an integral component to his success - bringing along its own advantages (including speed, mobility and stamina) that wouldn’t necessarily be enjoyed by a sized up version of himself.

And, ONE final final thing…ah, scratch that, I’ve lost my train of thought….

 

Cheers - likewise to your thread opener JT.

I saw that everyone else was employing eye catching, bolded lettering and I thought, dammit, so will I - notwithstanding my lack of content therein.

 

BOLD IS GOOD

- Gordon Gekko

 

Yeah John, I mostly agree with what you, Greg and Pug have said. Louis was overtrained and unrested coming into the fight and looked flat. I've read Seamons take on thing before, a few years ago iirc. I'm not convinced that he carried Conn though or lost extra weight for altruistic reasons, pro fighters don't think like that in my experience. It's possible though, maybe more a half subconscious thing or small nag in the back of his conscience.

I thought he struggled to adapt to the counter-intuitive way Conn fought in long spurts, up close hustling, flurrying and denying him the traction, room and the time to set his feet. But mixed with clever movement and attacking quickly when Joe was on the half turn. I think his durability and fire surprised Louis too, he just didn't go away even when hurt and kept turning Louis back. And was able to get on his bike enough of the time when necessary to reset and buy time. The Jofre - Harada fights remind me of it a bit.

Conn just fought the fight of his life really in a way that's hard to do more than once. Montreal Duran, Tokyo Douglas type bollocks. Or rather, they fought like him I suppose, but got over line where he failed, though his task was bigger in fairness.

 

Top quality posts in this thread John, Pugguy and Tin Ribs. Pleasure reading them.

It was reading a Joe Louis biography around 20 years ago that took my interest in boxing history to new levels. My recollection is there was pressure (I don't recall who from, or even if it was applied from Louis to himself) on Louis to weigh sub 200lbs, for optical reasons, in a bid to sell the fight to the press and public as competitive. I may still have the book in my loft, I'll take a look later and provide more detail if I find it.

 

Both had had a pretty hectic schedules, Conn actually three days less from his last fight, so don't know if that did much difference even though Louis had had more over the previous six months as you say. The difference was probably more that it was just another title defence for Luis, while it was the chance to become HW champion for Conn.

I also don't put too much credence in that such experienced fighters would overtrain. More just that Conn was really good and Louis probably had a bit if an off night.