Fights who suffered damage due to sparring wars?

There’s a lot to unpack here.

As far as CTE-like damage, we don’t know in any fighter’s case whether the damage was done by sparring or in-ring fighting. In most cases, probably a combination. But there’s no way to really tell. We know concussions play a part but there’s also a lot of research into the role of repeated sub-concussive blows (like football linemen banging helmets every play — most of those situations don’t result in concussions but the thought is it can do damage), which can occur in ‘regular’ sparring that doesn’t meet the definition of ‘gym wars.’

So that part of the equation is entirely speculative.

Another part of your question, why wouldn’t a trainer dismiss a sparring partner who goes hard — well not all sparring takes place in training camps. In way more cases than not, neither fighter is a sparring partner … it’s two guys sparring. A trainer takes his fighter(s) to another gym to get some work, or some fighter(s) come to their gym for some work. They’re boxers, not Fighter A is the Alpha and Fighter B is the sparring partner brought in to serve him. If you kick out anyone who goes hard in sparring, you probably end up drying up the well of boxers who will spar with your guys, and you also won’t be getting your guys ready for real combat conditions.

Likewise, if you’re in a situation where your guy is a champ or contender or prospect and you’re bringing in paid sparring, you still want those guys to go hard. You’re really limiting your options and will eventually run out of sparring if you pay them to come in and get hit without hitting back, if your ‘top guy’ gets to unload but you put the handcuffs on the sparring partner. You’re paying someone to come in and work with your guy, not to be a heavy bag (and what about them getting damaged?).

Some gyms have a reputation for hard sparring. Some fighters go all-out in sparring like it’s a real fight. It’s a hard thing to regulate.

 

This. It's not the gym wars that cause CTE. It's the overall number of hits taken to the head. Some guys think just because they practice light sparring they're not gonna get damaged but in the end what ends up happening is they're taking 5 times more shots since they're just "play fighting" in there and it's more detrimental in the long run. Plus play fighting doesn't get you ready for real combat that's happening in the ring, so it's a lose-lose situation if you ask me.

Hard sparring on the other hand does get you ready for a real fight plus you're not getting hit as much, so this is the right way to spar most of the time. If you want to avoid brain damage you should limit the amount of sparring sessions you have and not switch into "play-fighting"

 

James Toney is probably the best example of this. He was renown for not even training for fights other than sparring, then just sparring to spar...........coming into Kronk and other gyms calling names out, all weight classes, all levels. I think Toney was probably the most prolific sparrer in history. And you can see the effects now.

 

People have said it about Bennie Briscoe, as well as various other Philly fighters.

 

I’ve been revisiting some old AJ Liebling lately, reading some of his classic essays, and in one he visits Archie Moore in training camp and notes the Ol’ Mongoose doesn’t wear a headgear when sparring.

Archie explains his belief that wearing a headgear in sparring creates a false sense of security — a fighter knows the blows are going to be cushioned and thus is less wary of being hit, which he thinks can carry over into a fight situation where the gloves are smaller and the opponent is throwing with bad intentions.

He says he never wore a headgear in sparring until he won the title (in 1952?) and after he did he was too much of a commodity to risk a cut in sparring so his then-manager made him wear one. In time he got rid of the manager and the headgear (not the reason — he felt he didn’t need a manger anymore). This sparring session was before his 1961 title defense vs. Giulio Rinaldi.

I’m sure some wouldn’t subscribe to Archie’s thoughts on headgears, but I also don’t remember Archie having any ill effects of taking too many punches in his career, which spanned more than 25 years and 220 fights.

 

Stan Ward took a lot of damage from a prime Foreman. Alex Garcia got worn out by Mike Weaver.

 

Most damage is done in the gym these days - with fighters not fighitng too often - in my opinion, so to some degree it applies to every fighter.

Then, there are fighters who passed away - like Dwight Ritchie - or retired - like Steve Collins - after suffering injuries during sparring sessions.

I read that in the old times, fighters getting knocked out during sparring was much more of a regular thing. A lot of people brought in for Joe Louis's training camp, apparently, were getting carried out of the ring, then coming in next day for more.

 

Headgear, Same thing. Makes your head a bigger target, obscures your vision, gives you false sense of security all of which means you're getting punched more. Agree with Archie there Definitely not a fan

 

True, but if one of the fighters does not wear a head gear, there is a big chance of a cut. You have to consider everything, the bigger target, less vision, vs. a cut. We've found that if one fighter wears a head gear it protects both from cuts, but neither wants to be the one wearing it so we have to switch it every round or two. Pluses and minuses to everything...

 

He was …in his own words …a natural fighter

 

If the legends are true damn near all the Philly fighters probably
would fit this criteria . Especially the middleweights . Most seemed
to burn out early, like Frank Fletcher, Curtis Parker, Eugene Hart,
David Reid, Buster Drayton, Willie Monroe, Bobby Watts, William Lee.
At other weight classes . Joe Frazier, Tim Witherspoon , Tyrel Biggs,
Mel Taylor, Saad Muhammed, Dwight Qawi, Freddie Pendleton, Ivan
Robinson, Tyrone Crawley, Jeff Chandler.
All these fighters seemed to flame out early or suddenly. Were they victims of
Philly's legendary sparring wars? More than actual fights or fighting
styles?

 

A very shameful episode of how sparring can ruin a fighters health, lie in the Quarry dynasty, the amount of punishment Jerry meted out to his smaller lighter brother Mike was homicidal, year after year Mike took brutal career ending shots, to both head and body, without complaint, worse of all Jerry was egged on by the tyrannical and loathsome father of the boys that being Jack, who ruled the clan with an iron fist, his mantra was " there is no quit in a Quarry " that saying would cost his sons dearly....
stay safe guys.