Would Ali go Undefeated Vs Lennox Lewis Competition

There's nothing wrong with Pat's posts, he makes perfect sense.

 

You’re an idiot if you believe this. That shot Holmes took from Shavers was WAY harder as were the shots Foreman dropped Frazier with.

The damage control is strong with this one.

 

No. It’s the HW division, more upsets happen in that division than any other by far. Lennox had a deep and brilliant resume, would Ali be favourite against all of Lewis’s opponents? Yeah, probably, but he’d lose to somebody who you wouldn’t expect. I mean he arguably lost 3 times to Ken Norton, Lewis fought better people than Norton.

 

Your post is a huge minus for Pat's.

 

Lennox does not get up from the career hardest shot Shavers dropped Holmes with, or several of the head shots Ali stood up to. (Shavers was Ali's true Manila, and inflicted the brain damage Ali never recovered from.)

Bugner stated in no uncertain terms that Earnie was the hardest puncher he ever faced. So did everybody else who remembered getting hit by Shavers (leaving out Jerry Quarry who stated in his post fight interview that "He never hit me!" only to be shocked that Earnie did hit him solidly while viewing the videotape the following day - Shavers himself said on camera that he really nailed JQ, and Jimmy Ellis, who never knew what hit him.)

Tillis said Tyson hit like a pansy compared to Shavers, and the footage supports that completely. (I had Quick the winner over Mike 6-4, but thanks to Don King, the fix was in.)

Lennox would find himself in a kill or be killed situation, but Tiger Williams proved somebody of Lennox's height could pose problems with Earnie reaching his head. For Shavers, there was a huge difference between 6'4" and 6'5".

The Ali of 1967 and the mythical Ali of 1968 and 1969 has no trouble going undefeated against all of LL's competition. Holyfield proved with Valuev that there will never be anybody too tall for Ali to reach easily.

 

There should be a separate check mark option for HELL NO.

First of the all, the Cassius Clay who was floored against Sonny Banks against freaking Gary Mason ... THAT 235 pound, 35-0 with 32 KOs Gary Mason who Lewis faced against that scawny version of Clay who faced Banks?

Clay loses badly.

Second, the Cassius Clay who struggled over 10 rounds against 188-pound Doug Jones against the 231-pound Tyrell Biggs? Lewis demolished Briggs. Lewis against Doug Jones would've been a CRIME. Cassius Clay against Tyrell Biggs would've been REALLY, REALLY tough for Clay. Really tough.

Third, Cassius Clay who got floored by 185-pound Henry Cooper against 231-pound Razor Ruddock's left hook? The SMASH. The left hook that nearly killed Michael Dokes against the Ali who was flattened by Henry? Clay isn't getting some cuts stoppage against Ruddock. He's going to have to outbox Razor. Who did that? Because Razor was a really good boxer in the early 1990s.

Then there's the just turned 22 years old Cassius Clay against Liston the first time, against Tony Tucker. Now, I think Clay had more than enough boxing skills to handily outpoint most of the "shortstops" in the 1960s, but Ali even had trouble at the end of his 1960s reign with Zora Folley, who could box a little bit. The 48-1 Tony Tucker was a better boxer in the early 1990s than late 60s Zora Folley, and he was a helluva lot bigger, too. Is the Ali who won the title from Liston that night putting Tucker to sleep? Not likely. Not that Tony Tucker (before all the losses piled up).

Then there's the Ali who fought Floyd Patterson the first time against Frank Bruno who gave Lewis hell at Cardiff. Floyd was small and suffered back spasms, while Bruno was a monster and was jabbing all night that evening. And Ali hated guys who jabbed with him. That's how Norton beat him, by jabbing with him.

What about Ali who fought Folley in 67 against the 238-pound highly motivated Ray Mercer who Lewis struggled with in 96? Does Ali one-punch KO that Mercer?

Not to mention 1971 Ali versus 37-1 David Tua ... and Tua's left hook. Does Ali get up from the 245-pound Tua's left hook like he did from the 205-pound Frazier's left? Or 1970 Ali who fought Bonavena against Holyfield?

Ali certainly doesn't go undefeated. How many losses he has is the question. More than two, that's for sure. He certainly doesn't get to 31-0, like he was against Frazier the first time.

 

Random musings. The suggestion that if Ali doesn't knock his opponent out he was troubled by him isn't a convincing argument . For instance Folley never troubled him. Joe Bugner was a big strong athletic boy who would whup a lot of the alphabet champs and fought 27 rounds with Ali and won only a handful and never had him in trouble. Would add love Lennox too.

 

Joe Bugner was 22 when Ali fought him in 1973. In the previous 16 months, Bugner had lost to Larry Middleton and Jack Bodell. He wasn't exactly a banger at that time. He was still a kid. I don't think Lennox Lewis would've had much trouble in 2002 messing up a 22-year-old Joe Bugner really bad. Ali wasn't exactly beating up anyone in 73. Everyone left the ring with Ali virtually unmarked that year. (I doubt Norton or Bugner could've absorbed the shots Tyson did against Lewis in 2002. Lennox beat him up.)

The weight, size and power of the heavyweights Lewis faced would've been a shock to Clay/Ali compared to the guys Ali was used to facing, particularly in the 1960s.

 

Ali fought him again in 75 and had no trouble with him.

 

The only idiot here is you.

Even if we assume it was, it also matters where both shots landed and how ready their recepients were for them.

Those were definitely not harder and again, they landed completely different.

 

Foreman, Liston, and Shavers were better boxers and hit just as hard if not harder than Ruddock and Gary ****ing Mason. By the logic of your post, Ali should have lost those fights.

Who the hell did Tyrell Biggs beat? You think Ali goes life and death with a drug addict underachiever who never won jack ****?

Ali doesn't need to put Tucker to sleep. The Ali who beat Liston was the closest thing to an untouchable HW. The Tucker Lewis best was garbage, he would need to initiate offense and he'd look awkward attempting it. Ali dominated Folley so I don't get why you're even bringing that fight up.

Frazier doesn't hit as hard as Tua, but he's better than him in almost every single category. Yes Ali would get up from a hook from Tua, nobody is knocking Ali out with 1 punch. He would go on to box circles around Tua.

Bruno lost to Tim Witherspoon and James Smith, but he's going to pull off a Norton masterclass out jabbing Ali? Are you smoking meth?

These troll attempts are easy work.

 

I stopped taking him seriously when he said Cooney would beat Liston. He's not even an entertaining troll at this point.

 

I would bet my entire house that Liston would brutally KO Cooney if someone built a time machine.

 

Even today, I'd still make him 50-50.

 

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It was on the side of Lewis's chin, and while a hard shot yes, we've seen fighters take harder shots in a similar manner and remain upright. Had Foreman or anyone from the 70s or earlier, been knocked out by a single shot, you'd be using it as proof they can't take a shot.

Are you really going to tell me that shot was harder than say, the one Foreman just about decapitated Frazier with for the second knockdown? I'm in for a laugh right now.