Could Joe Bugner go the distance with prime Mike Tyson?

I know performances can be rated in their own right to some extent notwithstanding the quality of the comp. faced as at the time (see Ali v Williams for one example).

However, how does Mike’s 88 comp. rate as compared to his other scalps? It doesn’t mean Mike still wasn’t at his peak - but I’d say in context and all things considered - Holmes and Spinks might not rate right up there.

However, the manner in which Mike dispatched them was nonetheless impressive (again, see Ali v Williams). Just imo, all things accounted for, I thought the Tubbs KO was perhaps the most impressive for the year 1988.

Bugner, though it would entail fighting ugly, could have a good chance of lasting the distance.

And, @lone star made a great point imo - if still there after 2/3 of a 15 round’er - could we perhaps be looking at Joe not just lasting but perhaps having a shot at wining?

As always, this of course has to be the best version of Bugner, the “Aussie” Joe version - we did, after all, mould and shape one Robert Fitzsimmons in his formative years, boxing’s first Triple World Champion.

It must be “something” in our water I’m thinking.

NZ doesn’t have its own identity either - we take credit for all their successes also, including lamingtons, pavlovas and David “Have a Tooheys” Tua - pretty sure they don’t mind.

I sound like I’m part of a campaign for local Tourism - “G’day Mates and Cobbers, come on Down Under and get your shrimp on…”.Lol.

 

This computer says a NO on that.

 

Interesting point about whether Holme and Spinks were as good as some of Tyson’s other opponents. You may have a point. I’m assuming you mean at the stage they were at in their careers of course, what with Larry being older and out of the ring for some time, and according to some, nowhere near “match fit.” And maybe Spinks…not a natural HW and maybe a little bit past his best? There’s a lot of mileage in those arguments but I’ll try and offer an alternative view.

Firstly the manner of Mike’s victory over Holmes…a man who would go on to fight other hard punching and dangerous guys when even older and many more years past his best, without even tasting the canvas (I think) never mind being KO’d, puts Mikes 4th round KO of Holmes into some kind of perspective methinks. Not the best version of Larry obviously, but still a durable, hard…almost impossible…to stop guy. In ‘88 Tyson did what no other man before or afterwards, did.

As for Spinks: did you know Pug that here in the UK some boxing journalists, tipped Spinks to frustrate, annoy and counterpunch Mike to a points defeat. Spinks was after all, the unbeaten, highly skilled operator that took the title off, and defended it against, the previously unbeaten Holmes. In his last fight he battered Cooney to a 5th round defeat and looked pretty decent doing it. Some pundits tipped this to be Tyson’s hardest fight to date.

And as for Tubbs…this guy was never stopped and apparently had the skillset to give Mike problems. But of course he, like the others, was given no opportunity settle down into any sort of rhythm. Tyson was just far too explosive and relentless.

I would say…not categorically though…that had all three survived those early Tyson hurricanes, they may well have heard the final bell. But I just think that this was peak Tyson…not just prime…and there just was no way they could have done anything to avoid the destruction that befell them, durable and as skilled as they all were. There was just a certain inevitability in their demise at his hands.

As for Bugner with the brutality that Tyson displayed I just can’t see him doing what those other three couldn’t do. All his survival plans would go up in smoke as Mike swarms all over him. All conjecture of course…simply how I see it.

But HAD Joe have gone the distance, could he have won? I don’t think so personally, though I think the points gap that I could see Mike build up, narrow as the fight goes on.

New Zealand? I went off that country when I was booted out of there many years ago after a pub brawl! Long story but I was totally innocent. Well that’s my story and I’m sticking to it haha!

 

Well obviously Joe was a durable guy with a good jab who was cautious with a good defence and had good survival instincts.
However he’d have never faced anything like Tyson’s ferocious early onslaught and I know people bring up the Frazier fight but effectively Frazier and Tyson are different fighters, and Frazier was a relatively slow starter and Bugner was able to settle down into that fight and had decent success early on.
Tyson fights more from mid range and I think his speed of hand could get him inside Bugner’s defence cause real discomfort for Joe.
It maybe that Bugner rides it out get’s beyond the middle rounds ties the slowing Tyson up in the second half of the fight and comes out of it with an honourable losing UD but I suspect Tyson has him out of their in 4 or 5 rounds.

 

Vic, totally on the same page as you - quoting myself "However, the manner in which Mike dispatched them was nonetheless impressive" and "I thought the Tubbs KO was perhaps the most impressive for the year 1988."

Tubbs did come to fight and fought very well for as long as it was at all possible - landed some nice shots BUT Mike remained cool, calm and focused and it wasn't too long before Tyson was landing some great shots to see TNT off. Tubbs had very fast hands, so it was great exemplification of Mike's own speed (hands and feet) and his ability to get in there and counter strike the bigger man.

Yes, I was definitely referring to the quality of the fighters as presented on the night. Yeah, I recall Spink's chances being talked up - but TBH, I thought his chances were being somewhat overstated - and atop that, poor Michael was sh*t scared before the bell rang - who wouldn't be? Lol.

Now this pub brawl in NZ. I would love to hear the details, but up to you if you ever feel inclined to relate. You should've come to the Mainland, we wouldn't have given you the boot.

My short, true story re pub ejection. Sober as a judge, went into a pub and ordered what should've been my first beer. I was denied service.

Why? They told me their live stream CCT caught me stumbling around at their establishment and that I was also recorded harassing women. How's that? They totally had the wrong guy. When you simply try and defend the accusation, they claim you're escalating and becoming aggressive - even though you're not.

Now if it had been two weeks prior at that same pub, they would've had me pegged correctly, but definitely not on this occasion. Maybe they were mistakenly looking at "old" CCT vision. Lol, yes, that last part is a joke - I had never visited that pub before, but the rest is true.

 

I think Tyson would have a reasonable chance of stopping Joe in his early rounds frenzy, as solid as Joe is. If he didn't thru Joe fighting cautiously Tyson would scale back and settle into the pace and rhythm he did against the likes of Tucker and Bonecrusher and win the vast majority of rounds and possibly all of them. Neither could mount any sort of offensive against Tyson in the late rounds and Tucker did try to at times.

 

Mike , with his unique blend of speed, power and fast starting had possibly one of the best shots of catching anyone early so it's certainly possible ... that one is a con toss ...

 

Indeed

Haha! I hear you regarding your mistaken pub identity. My own issue was kind of mistaken identity, though not entirely.
I was with friends…my childhood pal emigrated over there back in the 1990s and I was over there for his wedding.

Long story short, the wedding reception descended into violent chaos with a couple of people seriously injured. Now I threw my own share of punches purely in self defence of course, but I had no part in any serious injuries. The police gave me a choice as a visitor to their lovely country: Either stay around and get drawn into their investigation… or get the hell outa Dodge and don’t return.

I got the hell outa dodge the next day!

 

Thanks for relating that Vic. Great story but you wouldn’t have been too thrilled when it all went down at the time.

 

It was actually very stressful Pug, I don’t mind admitting.

 

I can imagine Vic. Fortunately you got through it.

 

Prime Tyson with his explosive power and amazing hand speed always had a chance of stopping anyone suddenly with a single shot, especially in the early going. That said, sometimes if he did not get his man out early he seemed content to bide his time and win rounds, as with the Bonecrusher fight. Prime Bugner was one of the most durable fighters I have ever seen. He seldom won against the more elite fighters but he often had a way of making them look bad in winning. I believe Bugner would have an excellent chance of making it to the final bell.

 

Yes. It would look like the Bonecrusher fight. Bugner would hug and survive the full distance.

 

Yes but I would have zero confidence in him pulling it off. Maybe a 20-30% chance if Bugner is in shape and fighting to survive with no regard for actually winning then sure it's possible. I would expect Tyson to stop Bugner more often than not within 8-10 rounds after many frustrating moments dealing with Bugner's awkward spoiling, clinching, and timid defensive maneuvers. Bugner was arguably just as good as guys like Tillis, Tucker, etc who heard the final bell.

 

No