Would Ali go Undefeated Vs Lennox Lewis Competition

I explained to you how I was comparing them because you didn't seem to grasp it.

I was comparing Ali in his first year as a pro against everyone Lewis fought in his first year, and Ali in his second year against who Lewis fought in his second year and on and on.

That seemed the most logical to me.

And I think Ali loses more than twice.

That's my take. It not complicated. It's not trolling. I'm not trying to draw weird conclusions.

I just looked at how Ali looked in those years again the guys Lewis fought in those corresponding years.

That's all

 

That wasn't "all" you were doing. I got what you were saying from the beginning comparing Ali to Lewis year by year.

I didn't have an issue with you claiming Ali may lose to x, y, or z opponent. You can think whatever you want.

I was confused at how you reached the conclusion guys like Mason, Biggs, Ruddock, etc could potentially upset Ali when they struggled with opponents who weren't qualified to carry Ali's jock strap. I was also pointing out the major flaw in how you approached each matchup almost solely on the basis of size and weight as if simply weighing more than Ali is going to give a C level guy the edge over an A level elite.

 

Gary Mason was 35-0 with 32 Kos and weighed 235 pounds and was the 5th rated WBC heavyweight contender when Lennox Lewis faced him in 1991. By comparison, Sonny Banks was 10-2 with 8 KOs and weighed 191 pounds when Ali faced him in 1962. Ali was only 194 pounds himself and Banks floored Ali.

You don't see a potential upset there? Hell, I could count on one hand the number of 1960s opponents Ali fought who I'd even pick to beat Mason.

Same with Razor Ruddock. You don't see how the WBC #1 rated Razor Ruddock and Razor's left hook might cause a potential upset considering what Henry Cooper did to "still maturing" Ali in 1963?

Maybe Ali breezes past them. But Ali in 1963 didn't breeze past anyone. Throw 1992 Razor Ruddock in there instead of Doug Jones or Henry Cooper and does it get easier for Ali or harder to win that year? Because he isn't stopping Ruddock on cuts.

Same with 1962. Replace 35-0 Gary Mason with anyone Ali fought that year. Is it easier or harder for Ali to win?

Maybe he doesn't lose, but it sure isn't easier.

 

I think it makes more sense to use the Olympics as a starting point so 1988=1960 that way Mason faces the 1963 Ali and Ruddock the 1964 version

 

Ruddock could potentially upset anyone off a lucky "smash". Come on now. Give him his puncher's chance.

 

Lewis turned pro in 1989. Ali turned pro in 1960. Lewis was older at the start but he was older when it ended, too.

Using when Lewis turned pro and running into 2003, that's 14 years. So it takes Ali from 1960 to 1974, and 1974 was a good year for him.

Also, Ali didn't even fight for three and half years, and basically everyone is assuming he'd win all his fights and look awesome when he was actually out of the ring. People aren't bringing up how he'd do against Mercer, Akinwande, Andrew Golota, Shannon Briggs, etc. They're just assuming he easily beats all them. Even though he wasn't even active then and we never saw him in the ring in those years.

So he's already being cut a lot of slack.

 

Mercer? If a 42 year old Larry Holmes could make him look bad, I have every confidence Ali could.

Lewis put way too much energy into trying to KO Mercer, when he should have concerned himself with just scoring points. Ali would make no such mistake.

 

The 238-pound, highly motivated Mercer who fought Lewis. Against the Ali who fought 202-pound Zora Folley in '67.

I think Mercer would've been a tougher out than Zora was that evening, but I don't see Ray winning, either.

 

You think a passed it Ruddock has a big puncher's chance against the Ali of the first Liston bout?

 

You must have extra fingers.

 

Provide some examples.And also take into account that Lewis didn't see the shot coming, thus he didn't brace for it.

Be specific, which shot of Foreman are you reffering to, he had 2 fights with Frazier.

 

Mentioning the number of KOs and weight of Mason isn't some sort of gotcha argument. Otherwise Lamar Clark would be a murderous punchers Lewis might not get past if he faced Ali's opponents. Mason'st best wins were Biggs and Tillis. Whoop dee Doo. He has nothing that would trouble Ali. Being hard hitting and heavy were never enough to beat Ali. Amongst his 60's opponents, Liston, Terrel, Patterson, and even Chuvalo could potentially beat Mason.

Biggs is even worse. He lost nearly every time he stepped up. What was his best win...Jeff Sims?!? No I do not think for 1 minute Biggs could pull off an upset just because he's tall and athletic, he was trash.

Yes Ruddock might land a smash and pull an upset. Is it the most likely outcome? Absolutely not. Nobody ever beat Ali with one punch.

Nobody said it's impossible for any of these people to beat Ali but absolutely NONE of them would be favored to win.

 

I don't give even the best version of Ruddock a decent chance of pulling off an upset. I give him maybe 10% at his best, 5% at his worst. My point was that it isn't 0%. The most perfect smash punch he ever threw, landed perfectly, as Ali happens to be walking in, with Ali not having seen the punch coming for some reason... that might just do it. This is no different than the chance I'd give Shavers or Wilder, really.

 

Agree. I think I give Lewis the best chance. Say, 55/45 Ali for that one. Would take every ounce of everything Lewis has got, but there's a reasonable chance he could pull it off. He's going to have to be ready to be REALLY aggressive if he gets Ali hurt at any point, not hesitate even a split second.

 

I did. I said Ruddock has a puncher's chance. My issue was in his hyper fixation on size with the logic that if Ali was dropped by 188 pound Henry Cooper, then Ruddock is more likely to pull an upset since he was 230. That was basically his entire argument, as if the sheer size of them is enough to cause an upset, technique and skill be damned.