George Foreman (First Career) Vs Oleksandr Usyk?

Or correct, depending upon what he worked off, what time he was weighed and what he did after he was weighed. If he was weighed at 6pm, ate, slept, drank a lot for his fight at ten before a standard warm up for a 10pm fight, he absolutely could have been on the ring at 212. If he played handball, didn’t eat a thing, drank only water during an extended warm up he would have come in below 205.

A lot of the meaning also depends upon the day before.

Fortunately none of this really matters, because we know the weight range Usyk wants to fight at unfettered because he’s done so. It’s 215 to 230 ish.

 

Right, and that's starting to get what i'm driving at.

When a conversation turns to size and the differences are .5 inches and 6lbs (at HW) you know the conversation has gone wildly wrong. The spread of Usyk's weight (or Foreman's for that matter - people are claiming he "dried out" - before the weigh in? After? Did he hydrate? Did he dry out further? Did he work out? Did he sleep? When was he weighed?) is wider than 6lbs even if he was weighed at 7pm for 9pm, probably. A man can also be literally half an inch shorter (almost!) measured for height evening versu morning, especially if he's spent a lot of it on his feet, running like Dempsey did, shadow-fighting like Hatton did, versus meditating liked Duran sometimes did or sleeping like Lewis did.

Don't worry about it is the point. If they're within the same weight range we know that and that should be enough. If they are around the same height you know what you know about their jabs.

 

I think that if two guys are about an inch between them and within 10lbs of each other at HW, the notion of a bigger fighter is not sensible. That's the case here. In fact, if I take my favoured version of both fighters at HW, Usyk weighs in the heavier.

Foreman was 218 for Frazier in 1, Usyk was 220 for AJ 2. If Usyk is listed by Boxrec as being the same height as Foreman, the same reach as Foreman, is slightly heavier than Foreman but I'm supposed to believe that Foreman is bigger, not having it. Yes, there could be height disparities and weight disparities, but they could work for both fighters - or neither. I don't think it's sensible, so agree to disagree.

I would add though that many people, supposedly including Foreman, thought that Foreman would have a size advantage against Muhammad Ali. That was not the case. Foreman weighed in 4lbs heaviwer but seemed at times to be the smaller man in the ring. Ali even appeared to be stronger at points which dumfounded people.

Foreman and Liston seem consistently to be viewed as oversized by the forum and beyond, it is strange.

 

Yeah, I don't doubt that, but Usyk looks absolutely naturally at the weight, moves absolutely naturally at the weight, has demonstrated an engine absolutely exceptional at the weight. Based purely upon what you see, Foreman exhibits symptoms of fighting at an unnatural weight in a way that Usyk absolutely does not at 220lbs.

What makes Foreman naturally bigger than Usyk if he is the same size as him? What advantages does being naturally bigger provide when the two fighters in question weigh the same, look absolutely superb as fighters at the weight, look like prime athletes at the weight, have scored the most meainingful wins of their careers while weighing in at these identified weights (Usyk being slightly the heavier)?

I don't like the way that "and stronger" has snuck in here. These are two different things. This may help explain thugh why people always seem to think Foreman is bigger than he actually is though, they may be think about how imposing he is rather than how much bigger he is.

 

He definitely has his haters too (like all the heavies) and it's definitely not just this forum. Liston and Foreman both project this menace which seems to enhance their size in some people's eyes, IMO.

 

On the heights: if i'm forced to come down firmly on heights I favour celebrityheights.com. Heights are their business, and they try to do it via comparitive photographs of known individuals posing with the person they are trying to ID (often the site owner). They have Foreman as 191.5 and Usyk as 189.2. 1.3cm difference. I'm happy to take that as a working difference which would have a range of one inch to .3cm by my way of thinking. I'm happy to dismiss this as meaingless beyond styles.

Styles show that Usyk fights taller, if anyone cares.

 

OK, some stuff about this position.

Let's say that you think Usyk's best demonstration of skill and athletic prowess is against Gassiev where he would have been in this weight range. Huck was also very impressive. He nearly knocked out Anthony Joshua when he was the world's number two ranked heavy. Do you think this was easier or more difficult than what he did against Gassiev or Huck? Do you think shortfalls you have dedected in this fight compared to the Gassiev fight might be about the additional difficulties in fighting one of the most difficult combat athletes to beat (in literal terms) on planet earth? AJ would murder Huck, bury him - he is far and away a more difficult, dangerous challenge that Usyk met and he looked exceptional. Do you think any of the small differences you have dedected (that I missed) in these performances might be explained by the much more extreme danger AJ presented to him as a virtual threat? Or do you think it is all about his weight range?

Secondly, if Usyk is better at 210 than 220, for what reason do you think that Usyk and his medical and training team made such a dramatic error in sending him in at the wrong weight?

For the record, I think Usyk's best performance was at 220lbs. Nullifying virtual threats is, IMO, the toughest skill in boxing and it's rare to see such an extraordinary display of it especially one that rellied so much upon gas tank at a weight you are contesting was slightly unnatural for him.

It was weightmaking. Usyk had to make a weight, he had to take off water in the final week (8lbs of it). That is what sent him ot the ring at 210. Left entirely to his own devices he did 215 and then 220. All available real-world evidence points towards this being his natural weight.