George Foreman (First Career) Vs Oleksandr Usyk?

I get where you're coming from and I'm normally the one arguing a MW, for example, of today isn't the same as a MW from same day weigh in eras, when cross era fantasy fight threads are posted.

I've also said, more than once, that you could be right and referred to my own estimates as guesses.

Foreman is reported as having dried out before weigh ins during his 1st career, this allied with their weights at comparative ages, means I guess Foreman is naturally bigger than Usyk. I'm not alone in thinking that and have no problem that you think differently.

 

I agree that there have been more extreme weight cuts than would have been required for the Foreman from Frazier 1 to make 200lbs. I said that I suspect he couldn't make 200lbs and be close to 100% the night after.

If Usyk's natural fighting weight was 215-222lbs and cutting water from 218.5lbs to 200lbs has no significant impact on a fighters performance the next night, why do you think he was 207lbs on fight night (presumably no nearer to the fight than Foreman weighed 218.5lbs to his 1st fight with Foreman)?

 

The essence of my question was, if 1) Usyk's optimum fighting weight is 215+; and 2) If a fighter weighing 218.5lbs (lunch time the day of the fight, in the case of Foreman for Frazier 1?) could deydrate to 200lbs, rehydrate back to 218.5lbs the next day and be close to 100%; then - why was Usyk only 207lbs on fight day at CW? Why not cut water from, and rehydrate back to, his optimum 215+ fighting weight on the day of the fight?

I think you grasped the question well and my understanding of your response is that such a cut, whilst not uncommon today, would still take something out of a fighter, so instead Usyk got to his natural fighting weight and then roughly cut half through diet and training and half through dehydration, to strike the optimum balance between his in the ring weight and condition, which is a reasonable response and which makes sense.

I still think Foreman is naturally bigger than Usyk. I think that at every comparable age throughout their adult lives, both as active boxers and not, Foreman will weigh more, mostly signicantly so, than Usyk. I respect the fact you see things differently to me and from my end, I'll leave it there.

 

I think Anthony Joshua was officially measured at 6ft 5 1/2. Given the height difference between him and Usyk it seems Usyk is probably not more than 6ft 2. So Foreman would be at least an inch taller

 

Usyk schools Foreman and wins a wide -- wider than the length of the Pacific -- decision.

 

Called it on post #10

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...areer-vs-oleksandr-usyk.702873/#post-22284434

 

It seems that you are asking me why I think it unlikely an amateur boxer would not want to undergo severe, daily weight-cutting, to make successive weigh-ins, during a tournament.

What evidence points to this being the case? I’d have to say common sense, really.


What evidence do you think there is that points to Usyk being between 215 and 222 over the course of his amateur career?

Also - I am not sure what you mean by your use of the word “natural” in the context you have here.


I’d add that, at age 21, Usyk was still able to make the Light Heavyweight limit for the European Amateur Boxing Championships in 2008. So I feel fairly comfortable with suggesting that Usyk appeared to have matured into a 200lb fighter over the course of his amateur days.

Yes - it is amazing how allowing yourself to be your natural weight can build muscles, isn't it?

I don’t know how far one would have needed to travel, so as to NOT see any of the news about Usyk’s body transformation, post-Chisora, the training regimen (which included Olympic Weightlifting) and massive food intake. But sure, Usyk was only letting himself reach his natural weight freely.

I'm not sure of the point trying to be made here.

How can you be absolutely certain that, had Foreman dried out and Ali had not, that Ali would have been the heavier going into the ring that night?

Incidentally, neither of them would in their future bouts weigh in as low as they had for Zaire.

I'm not. That would be the fun of the wager, if it were at all falsifiable.

I couldn’t find a "magical tailor".

I had to find a special costume shop instead…

This content is protected

 

Foreman and Usyk are equally sized, roughly. Usyk weighed no more than 221 in the AJ fights and Foreman weighed 220 against Ali. It’s fair to say they’re the same size, Usyk might barely be bigger but it’s not enough to make a difference in the fight.

 

Re: Foreman-Ali. The weigh-in was three days before.

 

Even if we go by Foreman’s weight in the Frazier fight, it’s still not a significant difference imo. Foreman was 217.5 to Usyk’s heaviest 221.5. Those 4 pounds probably won’t change the outcome of this fight

 

I actually think Foreman is perhaps the slightly naturally bigger man, but whether he is or not, this thread is the kind of debate that brought me back after nearly 10 years. . Apparently Ridley Scott is making a definitive directors cut version of Blade Runner and adding this thread to Roy Batty's final speech:

“I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate…and I read the whole of the Foreman-Usyk thread on Eastside Boxing’s classic forum.. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."