Wilder's paradox

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by ikrasevic, May 6, 2023.


  1. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Our pope is the Holy Spirit Full Member

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    Which is why no one calls Deontay Wilder a "small heavyweight"; because of the height?
    To remind; Deontay Wilder weighed 219 pounds (Berman Stiverne) when he won the heavyweight title (220¾ in rematch), and 214¾ (Luis Ortiz 1), 212½ (Tyson Fury 1), 219½ (Luis Ortiz 2) when he defended the WBC title . He also weighed 214½ in his last fight (Robert Helenius).
    Today is the age of the "modern superheavyweights"; so let me remind you of some "small heavyweights":
    - The Rumble in the Jungle - Muhammad Ali 216½, 220 pounds George Foreman
    - Thrilla in Manila - Joe Frazier 215½, 224½ pounds Muhammad Ali
    - "Tokyo Douglas" - 231½ James Douglas, 220½ pounds Mike Tyson
    - Oleksandr Usyk 221¼ pounds vs Anthony Joshua 1; 221½ pounds Anthony Joshua 2
    - 221¼ pounds Mike Tyson vs. Trevor Berbick
    - David Haye 222 pounds vs. John Ruiz; 217 pounds vs Nikolai Valuev
    - 220 pounds Mike Tyson vs. Frank Bruno 2 (247 pounds); 219 pounds vs. Bruce Seldon 229 pounds
    - 221 pounds Evander Holyfield vs. 224 pounds John Ruiz
    - 229 George Foreman vs 213 pounds Jimmy Young (even he was heavier than Wilder; Tyson Fury 1 fight)
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    All these boxers are generally called "small heavyweights" in modern boxing slang, and Wilder is not called that at all, although in most cases he is lighter than them.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2023
  2. MAD_PIGE0N

    MAD_PIGE0N ... banned Full Member

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    Just a stupid suggestion from many people who literally forget what a bigger person actually is, which you can be at around 185 cm tall and around 100-105 kg. There are enough examples of boxers bigger than that, but good for nothing and get beaten by "small" ones.

    Usyk is called small being 191 cm at 100 kg, while the legless spaghetti Wilder is 10 cm taller, but even lighter - what's "big" about that? The concepts of tall, fat and big are confused and the fact of how pure your weight is and how fat you are is completely disregarded.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2023
  3. MorvidusStyle

    MorvidusStyle Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well I think the weight = size thing works until you include body fat. Wilder comes in incredibly lean, abnormally so for a HW, so even 214-220lbs is like a lot of HWs being 230-240 at least.

    People saw Usyk looking pudgier when he put on weight and basically all the smaller fighters do. Many are visibly fat or even obese looking. Wilder is naturally bigger than all these fighters even if he weighs a bit less.

    And then with the SHWs, you have Fury being fat obviously and plenty of others carrying extra weight. When you take Fury's fat off, he was probably lighter than bodybuilder Wlad and not much bigger than Wilder. The fat does nothing, it's just baggage. The true size of the fighter is the lean weight.

    So I think Wilder's frame is huge and he just happens to be the leanest HW out there. He also came in bulked up for Fury and still didn't look fat. PEDs probably helped that, but still.

    Put it this way, if Wilder had the bodyfat percentage typical pudgy HW's have, he would be much much heavier.
     
  4. Philly161

    Philly161 "Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless" banned Full Member

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    I've heard many mentions of wilder as lighter than the average hw champ these days. it's part of what makes his power so freakish.
     
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  5. 40ozoe

    40ozoe Member Full Member

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    Fat wins fights. Just ask Butterbean who used his fat to legitimately defeat many legitimate boxers.
     
  6. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

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    Wilder bulked up to 240 and it did nothing for his power

    The key to his power is a complex biomechanical system. He should stick to 220.

    He is a naturally lean skinny man. His legs should be 10-20 lb's heavier alone but that's not his natural build. He's basically a stick of TNT.
     
  7. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Our pope is the Holy Spirit Full Member

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    This one could perhaps be accepted, but only within the heavyweight category. In any other weight class, fat would be against a boxer.
    I would disagree that fat is a key factor in a boxer's success. Wilder, Shavers, Foreman (young Foreman)...they didn't have fat.
     
  8. MixedMartialLaw

    MixedMartialLaw combat sports enthusiast Full Member

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    He has height and reach. In a game where the goal is hit and don't get hit, being 6'7" with an 83" reach would not make anyone undersized. Those are crazy leverages which he uses well to launch his right at least.

    He's built like a basketball player (which he was before boxing), long in height and reach, fast twitch muscles but very slender likely due to a very high metabolic rate. Wilder has admitted he struggles to keep his weight on. Nobody calls NBA players small.
     
  9. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Even though hes not overly big weight wise compared to Heavyweights of the last 30 years or so, but hes unique in the fact hes 6'7 ? With 83 inch reach and has a sniper like right hand at range with genuine KO power which isn't common.

    But I'm still not sold on him I want to see him beat more ranked 10 fighters Ruiz, Hrgovic, Zhang, etc.

    I actually wouldn't mind seeing Wilder fight the winner of Zhang/Joyce 2 or Joshua/Whyte 2.
     
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  10. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What legitimate boxers did butterbean defeat, though?
     
  11. ipitythefool

    ipitythefool Prediction ? Pain Full Member

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    If Wilder didn't have the legs of a skinny 10 year old girl he'd be about 240 lbs
     
  12. Kratos

    Kratos Well-Known Member Full Member

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    If Wilder had a brain and was also trained by Steward he most likely would have been the greatest heavyweight ever.
     
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  13. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    I don't understand how Wilder comes into fights so light. It's not like he's a slope shouldered stringbean. He's got broader shoulders than Joshua, and is generally very well muscled. I look at comparably built fighters like Tony Yoka and they're around 240lbs. Even Jennings was around 225 or so and he was very lean and shorter than Wilder.
     
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  14. mrbigshot

    mrbigshot Active Member Full Member

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    Wilder seems to be able to come in light without loosing power . Most boxers ( and people ) need some fat for optimum physical power .
     
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  15. ForemanJab

    ForemanJab Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    18 inch thighs.