the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Interesting question on how it might have gone if scheduled for 15.

Although I gave tso of the last four rounds to Whitaker (with one even), he pretty much edged those two and the even round of course was a coin toss. I get the feeling Pernell summoned everything he had in that last round. JLR was pretty much a one-gear fighter who plugged along, if doggedly, without there really being another gear to kick into when it came down to it.

Assuming the first 12 rounds play out the same as they did, I’d think Ramirez was the one with more left in the tank and probably asserts himself in 13-15. But I think they’d be close enough to debate as were many rounds in this fight.

I’m satisfied that Ramirez won (as I had him also doing vs. Arguello) but more than that — it’s certainly a fair debate whether he won or loss depending on how any particular person scores it — I’m 100% adamant that it wasn’t a robbery. That as noted in a post above is more urban myth than truth.

 

Zab Judah v Rafael Pineda (eliminator)

Round 1: 10-9 Zab
Round 2: 10-9 Zab
Round 3: 10-9 Pineda
Round 4: 10-9 Zab
Round 5: 10-9 Pineda
Round 6: 10-9 Pineda
Round 7: 10-8 Zab (scores a knockdown)
Round 8: 10-9 Pineda
Round 9: 10-9 Zab
Round 10: 10-9 Pineda
Round 11: 10-9 Pineda
Round 12: 10-10 Even

Total: 114-114 Draw (actual scores: 115-112 Pineda, 115-112 Zab and a 114-113 for Zab on a split decision)

Man, Zab Judah can be a frustrating fighter to watch, but he must've been a nightmare for his corner trying to get a fight out of him. Talk about a fighter who fights in spurts. When he was throwing, he looked brilliant, but then he would go back into La-La Land and Pineda would take full advantage of it. To Pineda's credit, he never stopped trying despite the fact that he was 38 and having his final bout. He deserved no worse than a draw for his efforts.

 

Joe Louis vs Ezzard Charles 27th of September 1950

round 1: Charles 10 - 9
round 2: Charles 10 - 9
round 3: Charles 10 - 9
round 4: Charles 10 -9
round 5: Charles 10 - 9
round 6: Charles 10 - 9 (close)
round 7: Charles 10 - 9
round 8: Charles 10 - 9
round 9: Charles 10 - 9
round 10: Louis 10 - 9 (close)
round 11: Charles 10 - 9
round 12: Charles 10 - 9
round 13: Charles 10 - 9
round 14: Charles 10 - 9
round 15: Charles 10 - 9
Charles 149 - 136

Ezzard was landing the left hook early on in this one and by the 7th was following it up with the right and leading with the right. Joe was constantly stalking until he was hurt visibly for the first time in the 9th and retreated for a moment. The only round I gave to Joe was the 10th due to Joe's punches seeming to damage Ezzard more, but even in this round Ezzard was more active, like he was every other round. Ezzard looked like he hurt Joe seriously in the 14th. A fantastic performance by Ezzard Charles.

 

Gil Turner v Jackie LaBua I (NY rounds scoring)

Round 1: Even
Round 2: LaBua
Round 3: Turner
Round 4: Turner
Round 5: Turner
Round 6: Turner
Round 7: LaBua
Round 8: Turner
Round 9: Even
Round 10: Turner

Total: 6-2-2 Turner (actual scores: 4-4-2 Draw and a 5-4-1 and 6-3-1 both for Turner who won by majority decision)

Good fight by two fighters that were there to entertain. LaBua, who lacked Turner's punch wasn't bad when he could keep the fight in ring center but would inevitably end up with his back to the ropes getting pounded in the midriff by Turner. LaBua wasn't bad countering off the ropes but Turner's workrate was too much for him. A rough fight inside and Turner was cut over both eyes by the end. It's funny, Turner showed so much promise early in his career but after the Gavilan fight he started venturing into the middleweight ranks. Clearly a big welter but a small middle (I think he weighed 154 for this fight) and although he saw success, he was always at a deficit. Anyways, I enjoyed this fight and thanks to @William Walker for uploading it.

 

I love the fact that a fight like this is there in its entirety. I had it 12-3 for Charles, but yeah, pretty lopsided.

 

Of course we don't know how Whitaker and his team would have modified their plan if over 15 rather than 12, but on this form I give Ramirez the edge to have made a close fight a far wider points win for himself if there were 3 more rounds.

 

Thanks for this, yes looks like a shut out for Chavez but will give it a watch at some point. Looks like Chavez had far less issues than Whitaker did, unless that fight took something out of Ramirez?

 

Erik Morales v Paulie Ayala (featherweight title)

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Morales
Round 3: 10-9 Morales
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Morales
Round 6: 10-9 Morales
Round 7: 10-9 Morales
Round 8: 10-9 Morales
Round 9: 10-9 Morales
Round 10: 10-9 Ayala
Round 11: 10-9 Ayala
Round 12: 10-9 Morales

Total: 118-112 Morales (actual scores: 117-111, 117-111 and 116-112 all for Morales)

Man, I loved this fight. It takes two to make a fight and although Paulie was simply out gunned, he certainly didn't know it because he never stopped trying. It seriously came down to the fact that Paulie just didn't have the kind of punch that would worry Morales, whose punch was sharp and deadly. Paulie made a fight out of it on workrate and clean punching, but again, was simply out-gunned. Highly recommend this fight to you guys.

 

I rescored this awhile ago and i certainly do not agree with @Saintpat @scartissue although i respect their opinion.

Pernell Whitaker vs Jose Luis Ramirez 1

1 Whitaker
2 Whitaker
3 Ramirez
4 Whitaker
5 Whitaker
6 Ramirez
7 Ramirez
8 Ramirez
9 Whitaker
10 Whitaker
11 Whitaker
12 Whitaker

116-112 Whitaker

I respect your knowledge @Saintpat @scartissue But i have to say gentleman i totally disagree with your scorecards on this one. Whitaker clearly outboxed Ramirez early on, to Ramirez's credit he had a good spell in the middle rounds. As Whitaker went a bit negative not throwing anything apart from the jab, Ramirez was able to get to Whitaker's body and land a few solid left hands to win the middle rounds. I thought the fight was close after 8 rounds. But Whitaker picked it up in the last 4 rounds, started throwing and landing combinations. And Ramirez was ineffective and didn't really land anything of note in the last 4 rounds, as Whitaker won those rounds by out punching and landing combinations on Ramirez.

And @Saintpat you made a comment about you can see how the judges got there, well sorry i don't see how one judge could possibly come up with 118-113 for Ramirez that is scandalous.

Overall i will agree this fight wasn't a blow out and Ramirez had some good moments, but for me Whitaker clearly deserved the win for the way he started the fight and the way he finished the fight. Ramirez did really nothing of note in rounds 1, 2, 4, 9, 10, 11, 12. And whilst i agree Whitaker was negative at times especially in the middle rounds, he made up for that in the later rounds by at times sitting down on his punches and landing combinations.

 

We ultimately disagree on the scoring but as they say, that’s what makes a horse race.

I respect and appreciate your opinion and scoring and am glad you shared it. This is an interesting fight to score to say the least.

 

I think fir the most part we'll see fights rather similar, but every so often a fight comes along where we're polar opposites. I would say the fights that have caused the most controversy have been this fight, the 3rd Ali-Norton, Hagler-Leonard, Hagler-Antuofermo I and the first Mayweather-Castillo where we just didn't see it as apples to apples

 

What i will say to @scartissue @Saintpat is that Whitaker/Ramirez 1 was certainly no blowout, it was a competitive fight for sure. And i do think Whitaker's dominance was slightly exaggerated, but i still think Whitaker won a clear decision in a competitive fight.

But as i've said in a few threads i think Whitaker losing the decision, was a blessing in disguise. Because he was scheduled to fight Chavez next which he wasn't ready for. And i think the loss to Ramirez made him a better fighter, which is evident in their rematch which was a blowout.

 

Roberto Duran vs. Carlos Palomino, scheduled for 10 rounds, welterweights, at Madison Square Garden in NYC on June 22, 1979.

Duran, 145 1/2, is 67-1 and 28 years old, a 7-5 favorite. He’s moved up from lightweight, saying he can no longer make 135, and beaten the likes of Monroe Brooks and Jimmy Heair in what were technically welterweight fights but not fought a true welterweight of note like Palomino.

Carlos, 144 3/4, is 5 months removed from losing his WBC welterweight crown to Wilfred Benitez in his eighth defense and carries a 27-2-3 record at age 29.

Of note:

* HBO televises this and the main event heavyweight title fight between Larry Holmes and Mike Weaver, which the networks passed on (their loss) due to Weaver’s so-so record (little did anyone know he’d be a staple in the division for years to come and a future titlist himself). For most, Duran-Palomino was the more intriguing match as Roberto was untested at 147.

* Palomino made $250K and Duran took a pay cut (originally supposed to make the same as Carlos) to $100K with Don King losing money on the promotion as HBO paid a paltry fee of $150K for the card.

* The Garden draw a crowd of 14,136 and a gate of $770K or so.

* The WBC sanctioned this bout (I have no idea what that means … maybe it was an eliminator?) so it was scored on the 10-point must system rather than the round system commonly used in New York at the time. Don Dunphy at one point says Carlos is the No. 1 contender but doesn’t specify if that’s WBC, WBA or both.

My scoring:

1 — Duran 10-9: Roberto is quicker and more explosive, Carlos is stronger. He bulls Duran to the ropes but can’t get much done.

2 — Duran 10-9: His back to the ropes for a good bit of the round, Duran chews Carlos up on the inside as he puts on an infighting clinic.

3 — Palomino 10-9: Carlos lands some good counter left hooks and a solid right late as he starts to time Duran. Roberto manages a few bursts but not enough.

4 — Duran 10-9 (c): Carlos gets his jab n track and does some good work inside but Roberto lands the bigger, cleaner punches coming in.

5 — Duran 10-9: Vintage Roberto as he feints Carlos out of position and then unloads savage flurries. Carlos has a bit of a rally late in the round.

6 — Duran 10-8: He drops Palomino with a 1-2 early in the round and really works him over. Carlos is cut on or behind the right ear and around the right eye. Palomino recovers late and gets off a good combo before the bell.

7 — Palomino 10-9: The last stand by the former champ, who fires back with fury. Nice combos and body work.

8 — Duran 10-9: Just a gorgeous beating by Roberto who lands a huge right late that buckles Palomino.

9 — Duran 10-9: He lands three or four clean, flush right hands but Carlos does some good work in spurts. He’s just overwhelmed, however.

10 — Even 10-10: It’s easy to think Duran is getting the better of it as his punches are more showy, but they go toe to toe the whole 3 minutes and Carlos never stops working. He does enough grinding in close to keep this one even in my eyes.

My card: Duran 98-92. AP saw it the same. Official scoring was 99-90 x 3.

I hadn’t watched this one in years. It’s every bit the masterclass I remembered. This is classic Duran — his speed is the key factor along with his feints … he basically ties Carlos in knots with his feints then throws what he wants. And it’s clear that Palomino is a very good, capable guy who would clearly be on par with probably any other contender (except maybe Leonard and possibly a rising Hearns at this point) but Roberto is just a level above.

If you haven’t seen it, do yourself a favor. This is the best welterweight Duran with the exception of Montreal, and he’s not far off that form.

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