Max Schmeling v Muhammad Ali

When Murray Woerner put together the all-time computerized heavyweight tournament back in 1967, one of the first round matchups was Ali vs Schmeling. As I recall, of 11 experts polled prior to the match, 7 picked Ali. Jack Sharkey predicted that Ali would stay center-ring and outbox Schmeling easily. On the other hand, Nat Fleischer believed Schmeling would KO Ali before the 15th round. Keep in mind that this was 1967 and there were still many open questions about Ali and his abilities. Ali himself said that Schmeling was always fat and out of shape. He must have been confusing him with someone else because Schmeling always entered the ring well-conditioned. Schmeling said that he would have liked to have that fight.

A year earlier, Howard Cosell interviewed both Joe Louis and Max Schmeling at ringside for the Ali-Mildenberger fight. Cosell, recalling Schmeling''s having noticed the flaw in Louis' style, asked "Max Schmeling, thirty years later, do you see sometink?" to which Schmeling answered that he noticed no similar flaws with Ali.

 

Kind of a silly argument that X was a better fighter than Y because he was washed at an older age

 

You would think a Schmeling devotee would take the time to spell his name correctly.

 

Peak Schmeling was good enough to get Ali’s attention, but he ultimately gets chopped up and loses a lopsided decision or gets stopped late.

 

I'm new. I wasn't banned. Making a favorable comment about Louis in contrast to Ali is not slagging him off. Why not make a counterargument, instead of sounding like a passive-aggressive woman.

 

I accidentally added an extra 'l' sue me. Do you have a point, or are you content to nitpick spelling mistakes?

 

That wasn't the only point I made. Looks like you've got selective sight. Plus, the amount of time it takes a fighter to get washed up is an indicator of longevity and quality over time. Why do you think we hold Archie Moore and George Foreman and Jersey Joe Walcott and Bernard Hopkins in high regard? Because they were great at an age when most fighters are finished. I commend your selectivity, you picked the part of the argument that you thought was the most assailable. Well done.

 

A counter argument needs an argument, and if you ever ventured out of your mum's basement you'd know that "you're talking out of your ass" isn't an argument.

Moreover, you responded to something I hadn't claimed. I said Ali faced a pretty good crop of counter punchers, but did no comparison between them and Schmeling.

But against Baer and in the Louis rematch I think he was unimpressive, so, no, I don't have him as some unrivaled master just because he was very good in the first fight against Louis. But he clearly was a very good fighter.

 

Using Joe Frazier as a proxy for Max Schmeling. Simply risible.

 

Since we're using age as a measure when Muhammad was 22 he was knocking out a bubble top ten atg for the championship while Joe at the same age was getting knocked out by Schmeling.Why do you think we hold Mike Tyson, Sugar Ray Leonard, and Muhammad Ali in such high regard? Because they were great at an age when most fighters were just getting started.

 

Feel free to read my numerous comments. If you think they are stupid feel free to ignore or discard them. I'm not particularly interested in trading juvenile insults. Cheers.

 

Like I said. You've been very selective with my comment, I said much more than that. Louis had knocked out top contenders, won the championship from Braddock, and avenged the loss to Schmeling at the age of 23-24 so your argument could just as easily apply to Louis.

 

I was making a point that the guys you mentioned were inferior to Schmeling in terms of counterpunching, I didn't accuse you of anything. Schmeling was a first-class counterpuncher, Ali never faced a first class counterpuncher his best opponents (Frazier, Foreman, Patterson, Liston etc.) were guys who came towards him and didn't have much of a boxing sense (though they were good at what they did).

Well, he got beaten up by Louis before he could mount any offense and he was winning the Baer fight before he got caught.

 

I never used him as a proxy for Frazier, I made a comment about bobbing and weaving and about Schmeling being a better, more precise counterpuncher. Max Schmeling did bob and weave, not in the same manner or with the same aggression or rhythm or frequency that Frazier did of course. All you have to do is watch his highlights to clarify.

 

"You're talking out your ass" would reasonable read as an accusation.

Baer was bossing that fight and landing lots of shots. The guy that got outboxed by Carnera. Admitely, Baer looked his sharpest, but it's Baer we're talking about.

Schmeling looked like a deer in headlights against Louis. Showed no survival instincts whatsoever. Very far from some counter punching master.

He has the Louis win, which is fantastic, but the next best is a DQ over Sharkey.

As more pure counter punchers, Ellis and Young were probably the best Ali faced. Neither have a win like the one over Louis, but Schmemling of Baer and Louis 2 certainly isn't ahead of them in terms of counter punching. But they were so different in style that it's hard to compare.