Respect to both Bivol and Canelo

This reminds me of mosley fighting Forrest/winky twice and losing. The media and fans wrote him off for quite a while after that and it took a lot of hard work to rebuild his image afterwards. I know Canelo is thinking of his legacy, but it's not a fight any of us see him winning from a stylistic standpoint.

 

But isn't that what makes a rematch interesting? Don't we want to see the best fighters take on stylistically difficult fights? Most people aren't giving Canelo much of a chance to beat Bivol in a rematch, particularly at 175. That's precisely why Canelo wants that fight, he wants to take on the role of the underdog and prove people wrong.

Now I get that some people would rather see him fight Benavidez first, given that we already saw Canelo Bivol, but even there, more people would expect Canelo to win against Benavidez than Bivol, so if you want to see Canelo face the most stylistically difficult opponent out there, I don't think there's any doubt that Bivol is "that guy". So the fact that you don't see him winning makes it that much more intriguing. Also Benavidez is younger so the more time before Canelo Benavidez happens, that really should only benefit Benavidez. In 1 or 2 years, it might be harder for Canelo to beat him than it is now. So Canelo is really doing what boxing fans always complain about fighters not doing. He's not taking the past of least resistance, he's taking the path of most resistance if we're honest. He's seeking out the most difficult stylistic fight out there at a more difficult weight for him. And in a rematch with Bivol, Canelo would be determined to right that wrong. Having already been in there with Bivol, with that experience, he can make adjustments and see if he can find a way to win.

So even if he loses again in a close competitive decision, it wouldn't be a bad loss, and he still gets respect for taking on such a tough challenge. At the same time, Bivol understands this and knows that which is why now he wants to challenge himself by challening Canelo for Undisputed at 168 rather than again at 175. So both fighters should be praised for seeking the biggest possible reward and amount of credit. At the same time, if both fighters refuse to defend their titles against the other in a rematch, then there's no fight. One thing to remember though is as I said, there was a rematch clause in the original fight so if I understand it correctly, Canelo is contractually obligated to a rematch at 175. At the same time, Bivol's stance should be respected which is why I think the best solution is for there to be two more fights between Bivol and Canelo. A rematch at 175, and then win or lose, a 3rd fight at 168 for all the titles. That way, if Canelo beats Bivol at 175 in a controversial decision, which is very possible, then Bivol could still get revenge and take everything away from Canelo in a rematch at 168. And if Bivol wins the rematch at 175, then maybe he challenges Canelo at 168 but doesn't have to put the 175 title on the line in that 3rd fight. There needs to be a creative agreement put into place by Eddie Hearn that respects both fighters wishes.

And for those who say Canelo Bivol 2 should be put on hold until Bivol fights Beterbiev, of course that would be ideal. We all want Bivol Beterbiev to happen next. And even as a Canelo fan, I would want that to happen first because then the winner could fight Canelo for all the 175 belts. But for whatever reason Bivol or Beterbiev doesn't look like it's ever gonna happen. Which is a shame, but outside of Bivol vs Beterbiev, there's no bigger fight at 175 than a Bivol vs Canelo rematch. It could be an epic rematch, and a much better fight than the first time. And remember, even if Canelo wins, that doesn't have to be the end of the rivalry. Bivol still would deserve his shot to challenge Canelo at 168 which I think would also be a great shot.

Ya know, a lot of people don't want Bivol to fight Canelo at 168 because they remember what happened to Chad Dawson when he moved down to fight Ward. And no one likes a fighter to be drained and weakened by weight. But just because of what happened Dawson, that doesn't mean the same thing will happen to Bivol. Bivol is much smaller than Dawson and more capable of dropping down to 168 safely.

While the weight cut is a worry, and surely would be used as an excuse if Bivol loses to Canelo at 168, we really don't know how Bivol would look at 168. He might be able to do it safely. And Bivol seems to be very confident than he can make 168. As long as there is no rehydration clauses, Bivol might be able to make 168, then rehydrate fully and still be pretty much the same fighter than he is at LHW which is scary. But i think Canelo deserves that rematch at 175, to give him the chance to beat Bivol without any weight excuses. Then win or lose, either way it would set up a 3rd fight at SMW imho. And here's the other thing. A 2nd and 3rd Bivol fight doesn't have to happen back to back.

What if they do the rematch at 175 later this year, then Canelo drops down to 168 to fight Benavidez for Cinco de Mayo next year. Then a 3rd fight with Bivol at 168 could happen next September or something. That's a hell of a next 3-fights for Canelo that I think the fans would like.

Maybe after Canelo Bivol 2, maybe by next year, the Russian war in Ukraine ends and Bivol Beterbiev can get done. What if Canelo controversially outpoints Bivol in a rematch, but then Bivol decides to challenge Beterbiev next May, outpoints Beterbiev, then unifies with Canelo for all the belts next September or something. Things like this could happen and they would be epic.

 

No respect until they fight Beterbiev

 

You make some good arguments, and you know what, I am perpetuating a part of boxing that I really don't like in making boxing decisions focused more on business than fighters challenging themselves. If I'm being honest, it's more that Canelo appears to be slowing down slightly, and although I'm not a huge fan, I'd like to see him in a more intriguing match up because I think Bivol is a stylistic nightmare for him and I don't see the outcome being any different. Canelo is a master and wants to prove himself so I think he does deserve that opportunity. We will see how the fight unfolds! Thanks for your perspective and insight - sometimes I can be a bit jaded and a positive outlook on things is always welcomed.

 

I definitely give them both respect if they fight, regardless of the weight. Maybe they can do a catch-weight of 172 for all the 'belts' (and I use that word very loosely).

Anyway, they get no more respect than the average pug getting his wig split for $500.00.

 

9 to 3 and 10 to 2 is a very wide fight so what are you moaning about as this is boxing.

We talk about other sports the same way Turd.
“Did you see the game it was a blow out”

If we don’t wanna talk round by round then log off and just read the headlines

 

I don't see why everyone is against him fighting Bivol. He got beat, he is a fighter and fighters DO NOT like to lose. Credit to him for still wanting to go after someone who knocked him off the mountain. It needs to happen at 175. He takes the fight down to 168 and wins there will always be criticism about Bivol being weight drained or somehow not able to perform 100% at 168. If he thinks he can beat Bivol go prove it. i will definitely be watching.

 

You got to learn short hand

 

Well I doubt you'll be discussing anything new per say

 

That's not a reason to not take the fight.

It's far better that his prepared to take a fight that is very much a possibility he gets beat. Losing to Bivol again doesn't kill Canelo's career.

 

I still owe you the GGG appreciation topic. Problem is GGG has done nothing since our gentleman's bet to deserve an appreciation topic. Since our gentlemen's bet GGG gave a very disappointing performance against Canelo, then he did the unthinkable and vacated both of his unified Middelweight titles for refusing to fight his mandatory. An action that GGG fans still hold against Canelo to this day.

So GGG's actions since the gentleman's bet last year have made it difficult to make a GGG appreciation topic. That said, I am a man of my word and intend on living up to my end of the bargain with a GGG appreciation topic. I would like to see if GGG will redeem himself in any meaningful way before he retires. Will he ever fight again? Now without his titles to defend? The fans were very disappointed in GGG for how he fought against Canelo in the 3rd fight. He fought like a scared little girl. For GGG to refuse to fight his mandatory and vacate his unified Middleweight Titles is even more disappointing. I know you and many GGG fans had a big problem when Canelo vacated his Middlewieght Title before challenging GGG the very next year.

"But GGG is in his 40s, he's old, so vacating titles is OK."

It's the principle of the matter. GGG did what you and many GGG fans criticized Canelo for doing. Vacating not just one title but 2 titles by refusing to fight your mandatory. And it's not as though GGG has announced his retirement either. GGG made it very clear after he lost to Canelo that he was still the Unified MW Champion and still had those titles to defend. So there's really no defending GGG's actions since our bet. He's done nothing to deserve an appreciation topic over the last year+. If GGG had given the fans a better fight against Canelo the 3rd time I would have a reason to praise him in a GGG appreciation topic, even if he lost, but fought valiantly. The mini-rally late after 8 rounds of next to nothing just wasn't enough. Maybe I'll have to wait until GGG retires before the GGG appreciation topic happens.

In any event, I'm glad to be back and there's plenty new to discuss in the sport of boxing. Canelo's performance vs Ryder was impressive I'd imagine you'd agree. It will be interesting to see if Bivol will accept a rematch at 175, or what is next for the king of boxing.

 

What do you think about the idea of Canelo and Bivol agreeing to 2 additional fights : A rematch at 175 and then (win, lose or. draw) a 3rd fight at 168 for all Canelo's titles? That way, regardless of the outcome of a rematch at 175, it would set up well for a 168 Undisputed fight. If Bivol wins a rematch at 175, then Canelo would realize that he can't beat Bivol at 175, and due to Bivol beating him twice, would be forced to put all his titles on the line for a 3rd fight at 168. If Canelo wins a rematch, even if it's a controversial decision, then Bivol would want an opportunity to win back his title, and at the same time attempt to become Undisputed at 168. If they fight at 168, both Canelo's 168 lb titles and the 175 lb title could be on the line. But if Bivol wins the rematch, lets say, then maybe he would earn the right to not have to put his 175 lb title on the line in a 3rd fight at 168. But if Bivol loses the rematch, then perhaps Canelo would give him the opportunity to win his 175 back in a 3rd fight at 168 for all the titles. I think that would be a fair compromise.

And as a side note, if Bivol were to fight Beterbiev and beat him before he challenges Canelo at 168, then they could make history by having both the SMW Undisputed Titles and the LHW Undisputed Titles on the line in the same fight, which would be epic. I just don't think Bivol should have to risk his 175 title in a fight at 168 (especially if he beats Canelo again at 175) unless he has already beaten Beterbiev to Unify LHW. If he captures Undisputed at 175 then to make history they could fight for all the titles in a 168/175 Double Unification at 168. What do you think about this idea?

 

I've attempted to talk round by round in the past, If you recall, I went through Round 1 in great detail, exposing several Canelo haters trying to argue that shoulder shots couldn't be scored . It was quite humorous seeing them squirm after having to admit that shoulder shots were part of the scoring zone. Canelo just so happened to land a devastating Bicep bomb that connected to the shoulder at the end of round 1, which may have won Canelo the round. Even without the late bicep bomb, there were plenty of other reasons to give that round to Canelo anyway, so that round has already been beat to death.

After the meltdown over Round 1, it was clear that there was no getting through to those in complete denial about how close that round was. Rounds 2-4 were similar to Round 1 in how close they were, those first 4 rounds were all very close and arguable either way.

My stance is simply that Rounds 1-4 were close and could be reasonably scored for either fighter. There's really no need to go into more detail about that, as it's impossible to argue that those rounds weren't close or debtable. As a reminder, the fight was scored 7 to 5, not 9-3 or 10-2. 7-5 isn't wide, that's very close. Boxing is scored on a round by round basis, while Bivol's 7 rounds won were won clearly, rounds 1-4 that Canelo nicked were much closer. So Bivol won the rounds he won more clearly, while 4 of the 5 rounds Canelo won were arguable for Bivol.

So on a round by round basis, the fight was close, because 4 out of the 5 rounds Canelo won were very even, while the 7 rounds Bivol won were clearly his rounds. So when you say 9 to 3 and 10 to 2 is a very wide fight, that's misleading because it's not as if Bivol won 9 or 10 rounds clearly. If Bivol won 9 or 10 rounds clarly then yes it would be wide. He didn't, he only won 7 rounds clearly, Canelo won 1 round clearly, with the first four each very even and debatable.