Respect to both Bivol and Canelo

What do you think about the idea of Canelo and Bivol agreeing to 2 additional fights : A rematch at 175 and then (win, lose or. draw) a 3rd fight at 168 for all Canelo's titles? That way, regardless of the outcome of a rematch at 175, it would set up well for a 168 Undisputed fight. If Bivol wins a rematch at 175, then Canelo would realize that he can't beat Bivol at 175, and due to Bivol beating him twice, would be forced to put all his titles on the line for a 3rd fight at 168. If Canelo wins a rematch, even if it's a controversial decision, then Bivol would want an opportunity to win back his title, and at the same time attempt to become Undisputed at 168. If they fight at 168, both Canelo's 168 lb titles and the 175 lb title could be on the line. But if Bivol wins the rematch, lets say, then maybe he would earn the right to not have to put his 175 lb title on the line in a 3rd fight at 168. But if Bivol loses the rematch, then perhaps Canelo would give him the opportunity to win his 175 back in a 3rd fight at 168 for all the titles. I think that would be a fair compromise.

And as a side note, if Bivol were to fight Beterbiev and beat him before he challenges Canelo at 168, then they could make history by having both the SMW Undisputed Titles and the LHW Undisputed Titles on the line in the same fight, which would be epic. I just don't think Bivol should have to risk his 175 title in a fight at 168 (especially if he beats Canelo again at 175) unless he has already beaten Beterbiev to Unify LHW. If he captures Undisputed at 175 then to make history they could fight for all the titles in a 168/175 Double Unification at 168. What do you think about this idea?

 

I've attempted to talk round by round in the past, If you recall, I went through Round 1 in great detail, exposing several Canelo haters trying to argue that shoulder shots couldn't be scored . It was quite humorous seeing them squirm after having to admit that shoulder shots were part of the scoring zone. Canelo just so happened to land a devastating Bicep bomb that connected to the shoulder at the end of round 1, which may have won Canelo the round. Even without the late bicep bomb, there were plenty of other reasons to give that round to Canelo anyway, so that round has already been beat to death.

After the meltdown over Round 1, it was clear that there was no getting through to those in complete denial about how close that round was. Rounds 2-4 were similar to Round 1 in how close they were, those first 4 rounds were all very close and arguable either way.

My stance is simply that Rounds 1-4 were close and could be reasonably scored for either fighter. There's really no need to go into more detail about that, as it's impossible to argue that those rounds weren't close or debtable. As a reminder, the fight was scored 7 to 5, not 9-3 or 10-2. 7-5 isn't wide, that's very close. Boxing is scored on a round by round basis, while Bivol's 7 rounds won were won clearly, rounds 1-4 that Canelo nicked were much closer. So Bivol won the rounds he won more clearly, while 4 of the 5 rounds Canelo won were arguable for Bivol.

So on a round by round basis, the fight was close, because 4 out of the 5 rounds Canelo won were very even, while the 7 rounds Bivol won were clearly his rounds. So when you say 9 to 3 and 10 to 2 is a very wide fight, that's misleading because it's not as if Bivol won 9 or 10 rounds clearly. If Bivol won 9 or 10 rounds clarly then yes it would be wide. He didn't, he only won 7 rounds clearly, Canelo won 1 round clearly, with the first four each very even and debatable.

 

If both sides are unable to come to an agreement, run this by Eddie Hearn. This is something that could be proposed to both sides if they hit a wall in negotiations. The 2 fight deal one fight at each weight would give both fighters what they want, it would give the fans a historic trilogy between two of the best fighters in the world and it would provide a path to history making and ATG accomplishments for each fighter.

 

Canelo wants it at 175 out of hubris and shattered ego, he wants the accolades that go with conquering another weight class. Were he to fight (and win) at 168, there would be excuses (not Bivol's weight etc). A win wouldn't be as historically significant.

With that being said, stylistically Bivol is simply a foil to Canelo, too big, too good, too mobile at either weight class.

 

Hubris and shattered ego? He wants to right the wrong of the first fight. He wants the rematch for the same reason that anyone who lost a fight thinks they can win wants a rematch. It isn't rocket science. He wants it at 175 so fans won't be able to say "but he had weight advantages" if he wins. Canelo has been accused of stacking the deck against opponents, we all know that stemmed from when DLH was his promoter. And if we're honest, that was blown out of promotion compared to what fighters like Mayweather did (to him) or Pacquiao did (to Cotto, Marg, etc) actually draining people with catchweights.

Ever since Canelo's been with Eddie Hearn, he's been a very generous A-side. He gave Saunders his 22 foot ring, he went to PBC to fight Plant, and he agreed to give Plant more $$. He fought Bivol at 175, even though Bivol offered to come down to 168. What more could you possibly ask for out of Canelo? But yet you're still complaining?? Just admit it, no matter what Canelo does, you'll always complain. If you aren't satisfied by what he's set out to do since he sent DLH packing, you never will be.

That belief is precisely why the fight needs to happen. Because it's a fight that now many people think Canelo cannot win! So he wants to take on the toughest stylistic fight out there. And by the way, before the first fight not that many thought Bivol could or would win. Many people delusionally thought Canelo couldn't lose a decision in Vegas, that his fights are rigged etc. I said no, Bivol will probably win, but maybe Canelo wins if he performs at his best. Then Bivol wins so the exaggerations about it being more one-sided than it was started. Not to pat myself on the back, but I made it very clear from the outside that this it was going to be a tough fight for Canelo to win, I favored Bivol but knew it would be close on a round by round basis.

Yes a rematch at 175 is a tough fight for Canelo to win, but not impossible. And my idea, which would seem to be the solution to this problem : is to have 2 more fights. One at 175, one at 168. That way both fighters get the opportunity they want and the fans get to see each fighter fight each other at their best weight, so after those 2 fights there are no excuses since we saw both scenarios play out.

I don't see any downside to Canelo Bivol 2 happening later this year at 175, then a 3rd fight next year at 168. Despite what you may say about Canelo not having a chance, I think both would be very exciting and close fights. Lets see how a motivated Canelo would approach a rematch with Bivol, having already been in there, lets see if he can make adjustments, better manage his stamina, etc. And if you think he can't, then great, that's what makes it fun! People thinking Canelo can't beat Bivol is exactly why it needs to happen.

Anyone Canelo fights at 168 right now, Canelo will be a heavy favorite, including Benavidez. In a year or two, though, more and more people will start thinking Benavidez can win, making that even more dangerous for Canelo. But right now, Bivol is in his prime and it's the most difficult fight out there for Canelo. They shouldn't wait too long to make the Bivol rematch, strike while the iron is hot. The Benavidez fight isn't going anywhere. Bivol vs Beterbiev should have already happened by now, but it's clear that it's not being made.

Say what you want about how close you thought the first fight was, but styles make fights, and sometimes rematches are better than the first fight. Canelo had never fought anyone like Bivol, and he learned a lot from that experience. Bivol as well, I think it would be fascinating to see how both fighters adjust in a rematch. Personally I think a lot of people don't want to see the rematch because they know it could destroy the idea that they are trying to promote that the first fight was a mis-match. Canelo takes those criticisms personally and wants to prove taht it wasn't. So let him let him have his chance. And if he fails a second time, then we'll know. And then Bivol can do what he wants and challenge Canelo at 168. What an amazing trilogy that could be, if you could just get over your bias against Canelo and appreciate the fact that these two want to fight, and are willing (and demanding) to challenge the other for their titles at their opponents best weight. This is refreshing for boxing to see two guys daring to be great like this. So lets make a 2 fight deal, give them both what they want, and we get to see how it plays out.

The Benavidez fight isn't going anywhere for Canelo. Benavidez is only going to get better and will be more of a threat to Canelo as time goes on. Let Canelo try to prove you wrong and see if he can do better against Bivol in a rematch. I think it will be even better than the first fight if it happens. I'm not sure if Canelo can beat Bivol at 175, but I want to see him try. I want to see him try to prove people wrong who think he has no chance. That's what we want to see out of top P4P fighters. Take on the best and biggest challenges out there.

 

I'd love to see them fight at 168 for Canelo's belts and for Bivol's belts. That would be famtastic.

 

All due respect Serge, but I think you're worried about what would happen in a rematch. You say he doesn't deserve a rematch? That Bivol should duck a Canelo rematch and make him wait? Where's your fighting spirit?

Let the FIGHTERS FIGHT. They both clearly want the fight, but they want to fight the other in THEIR weightclass. So LET THEM.

Let Canelo challenge Bivol again at 175 and then let Bivol challenge Canelo at 168 and lets see what happens. WHY ARE YOU SCARED OF THAT? LOL. If Bivol is so good and can so easily school Canelo, then LETS SEE IT! Lets see Bivol put on another masterclass in the rematch so you can brag about how he beat Canelo twice. And then lets see Bivol try to DETHRONE Canelo at 168. Win lose or draw those fights would be EPIC.

LOL GOOD Lets see the thieving judges try to rob Bivol again as you SWEAT IT OUT! This kind of drama is what boxing needs!! Let us see Bivol and Canelo go to WAR TWICE MORE, one in each weight class!! And then we will find out who is truly the best of the best!

 

You said far too much for me to touch on, so in summary: A. I'm not biased against Canelo, I'm pretty sure I've only picked against him twice, (possibly 3 times) so that's silly. B. I think if they have a rematch Bivol has every right (especially having won the first) to get the opportunity fight for Canelo's titles at 168, he gave Canelo the 175 opportunity. Also as I already stated, it is in fact an uphill climb for Canelo to beat Bivol stylistically, he was out classed. He wasn't knocked out, beat up or starched, he was actually outboxed. Those type of rematches very rarely end up being avenged. You're talking so much about someone with a bias when you're bringing up dreams of a trilogy when their first fight wasn't even really truly even close enough to warrant a rematch other than the fact that it should be a rightful attempt for Bivol to get belts in a second weight class as an accolade for him offering Canelo a shot at. Your bias is showing far more than mine.

 

I'm all for Canelo vs Bivol fighting for Undisputed at 168. Of course Canelo would be risking everything vs a fighter that already beat him. And Bivol although would have to cut weight, it wouldn't be the same as Dawson against Ward because Dawson was much bigger at LHW than Bivol is. It's still a weight cut for Bivol but it would be done to attempt to make history. It's not like it would be an unfair catchweight insisted on by the smaller fighter as we've seen before. But if Canelo beats him at 168, then the drain birds will come out and not give him credit due to Bivol's weight cut, even though it's Bivol who wants to do that.

At the same time you cannot blame Canelo for wanting a rematch at 175 so win lose or draw there would be no excuses. I've outlined the ideal scenario of a rematch at 175 then a 3rd fight at 168, but if Bivol refuses to rematch Canelo at 175 then it's a very interesting fight for Undisputed at 168. If Bivol refues to rematch him at 175, if he will only fight him at 168 for Undisputed, then Canelo should have an opportunity to fight for something in that fight as well, namely Bivol's 175 title, since LHW is anything under 175 lbs including 168.

However what I pointed out is that if Bivol agrees to rematch Canelo at 175 before fighting him at 168 in a 3rd fight, then there should be a reward for Bivol for fighting Canelo again at 175, in that if he wins a rematch at 175 then he wouldn't have to put his 175 title on the line in a 3rd fight at 168. And if Bivol does grant a rematch at 175 before a 3rd fight at 168, even if Canelo wins and takes his title, he could win it back in a 3rd fight since LHW is technically any weight below 175 including 168. Ideally if they were to fight at 168 it would be better if Bivol fought Beterbiev first, so if he wins that a fight at 168 could be for Undisputed at SMW and LHW in the same fight which would be historic.

 

A good reason why I'd rather they fight the rematch at 175 first is to give more time for Bivol vs Beterbiev to possibly get made, maybe by next year. If Bivol beats Beterbiev (which is a very big IF) before challenging Canelo at 168 then we could get the history making trilogy fight for Double Undisputed at 168.

Although Bivol vs Beterbiev isn't about to be made, I like to think that maybe there's a chance it could happen next year. Lets say Canelo Bivol 2 happens later this year at 175, then (win lose or draw) Bivol vs Beterbiev happens next May, then (if Bivol beats Beterbiev) he takes on Canelo at 168 for Double Undisputed. If Beterbiev wins and becomes Undisputed then Bivol could still drop down to challenge Canelo for Undisputed at 168. And Canelo could fight Benavidez on Cinco de Mayo in between fight 2 and 3 with Bivol about when Bivol vs Beterbiev could fight. In my mind, that's the ideal scenario.

 

The idea of both 168/175 titles on the line while weighing at the 168 limit is freakin stupid. When did fans get this dumb??? No one like it when SRL did that. Yet here we are having fanboys not only want this, but also now being extremely OK with catchweight title fights. Something NO ONE liked just a decade ago.