Prime Hagler - Would He Have Battered SRL?

But truthfully northpaw, Hagler never did. He like many before him tried his hand at physical intimidation, Liston used to pile towels underneath his terry cloth robe to make himself look larger, Hagler with the bald head, the scowling look. Hagler did press Leonard but was not fast enough to catch him. Hagler will always have trouble with boxers who have a good chin and do not get intimidated. Hagler was defeated on April 6 1987, maybe he should have not taken that fight to tie and break Carlos Monzon's record of title defenses (14), then retire too as champion as Monzon had in 1977. But money is a tempting factor.

 

I do agree with much of this, specifically:

As well as the fact that crowders can bother Hagler as well. I also believe the Mugabi fight should've told him his time was up but him chasing Sugar for as long as he did, to finally get him, he had to take it. I get it.

 

Though, there'd be a younger version of Leonard as well, mind.

That said, I don't think Leonard's tactics would diverge much, if at all, from those he used in '87 and so the question becomes, to what extent would the execution of those tactics be improved upon by a more youthful Leonard?

On the other hand, an earlier incarnation of Hagler (say, '82/'83) does get a fair bit of his meaningful edge back, in my opinion. So, whereas I'd expect to see a difference in performance, from a Hagler closer to his prime, I think the gains for Leonard would be less obvious.

I still think it's a closely contested bout. But I'd back Hagler by decision.

 

Good and fair points,Richard.

 

Thanks Buddy.

 

A huge reason Hagler did not decision Leonard when they actually squared off is because Marv ceded the first two rounds by foolishly boxing orthodox.

Ray never really figured southpaws out the way guys like Duran and Arguello did. (Ultimately, a badly overaged SRL did get retired by another southpaw who he greatly admired.)

During Hagler-Mugabe, Ray clearly observed that MMH was very much noticeably slowed and very obviously wouldn't have the same potential template he used to once decision Bad Bennie Briscoe the way he did.

Still, Marv had the best southpaw power jab in history, always stepping into it with his long reach. Peak Hagler probably wouldn't have taken SRL out, but he could definitely hurt Ray, and manage him with that long southpaw weapon of his, a rare case of a southpaw's right having the great concentration of power. (Duran stated at the post fight news conference after Hagler that, "All his power is concentrated in his right. His left is dead.")

Also, when they did fight, Duran told Leonard, "You box him, you beat him!" This was extremely valuable inside intel for Ray.

In much more of a peak for peak exchange, I think Hagler's reputation would be diminished as it was after Duran, while SRL's cachet would be elevated despite losing, simply by taking MMH to the final bell. But Ray wouldn't have been as competitive as Roberto was.

 

Is that the t shirt that actually has a picture of Marv doing the jig? Every time I check online they’re sold out. Very popular.

I think you’re right - I do recall a woo during Marv’s interpretative boogaloo dance - clearly influenced by former opponent Bobby Watts.

Hags must’ve forgot that the judges were still scoring the fight for a full 3 minutes after the final bell - that was another one of Rays lesser known contract stipulations, atop the glove size, ring size and fight duration.

And to think with all that Marv also threw in starting as a righty for “free”.

 

As to 87 Ray v prime Hagler, while taking on the relative successes of Duran v 83 Marv, I would guess that 87 Ray would do okay for several rounds but with Marv catching up and ultimately battering an incrementally wounded and tiring Ray in the later rounds.

Still, whatever physical shape Hagler is in, there’s a good chance that Ray always gets into his head to possibly gain some measure of psychological advantage - and that mental advantage against a well past prime Hagler played no mean part in Ray’s actual and finely balanced victory.

A younger Hagler could likely afford erring in that regard but still come out on top as he did vs Duran, notably over the full 15 round duration.

 

Leonard wouldn't have made it 11. He was a great fighter for sure, but Hagler might have been pfp the greatest middlewright, period (and yeah, I'm a big fan of Monzon).

 

Greb was better than both.

 

How was Hagler ¨well past prime¨? Hell Leonard hadnt fought in 3 years he was 30, Marvin was 33.

 

As he performed v Leonard, in my eyes, Hags appeared well past his prime - and there was a long, tough career behind Marvin to lend rationale as to the cause of the degree of his decline by 87.

Not sure what Leonard’s status has to do with it - no one’s arguing for where 87 Ray was at relative to his own prime - 87 Ray was what he was - and that’s the Ray we’re pitting against prime Hags.

If we want to duck our head into 87 Ray relative to his own prime - even Ray himself said that with the layoff - 2 yrs and then 3 yrs, he was a better preserved athlete, not having under gone the greater wear and tear that Hagler himself endured in the interim (and arguably more wear and tear than Ray even before Leonard retired the first time).

Btw, very much liking the Huggies avatar - reminds me of when my boys were young - and they were damn expensive (both the boys and the Huggies) but they were the only nappies didn’t actually leak! Apologies for the “slight” tangent.

 

That’s the thing. We have to imagine it because he didn’t do it.

 

Possibly Huggie Bear, that may be the word on the streets, but it would still be nice to at least have some footage of Harry actually strutting his stuff in the boxing ring for an even more informed assessment.

I wonder if Greb would’ve legally changed his name to The Human Windmill? Sorry, just thinking out loud.

 

Mugabi beat what, about two fringe contenders in his life? He was a good punch away from probably being stopped against James Green.

Mugabi won the 154 title because Rene Jaquot slipped and hurt his ankle, not that Rene was much. In his first defense Mugabi didn't even reach the bell for the end of round 1. Same again in his next shot at a trinket belt.

Silver in the Olympics? There's loads of guys who won Olympic medals and didn't amount to much as the ams sure ain't the pro's.