Prime Hagler - Would He Have Battered SRL?

Leonard does not see the 15th round against prime Hagler.

 

Yep, Stoney and Manassa - great debaters. The thing is, we always talk about the fighters in hypotheticals and forget to include the corners, their skill in telling their fighter how the fight is honestly going and the most important part, their fighter's ability to adjust to their instruction - "You're blowing it, kid!".

 

Exactly. Angelo was of course one of the great corner guys, just ask him he will tell you. But he certainly was. The right advice, for the right fighter, at the right time. Look at Tyson's corner in Japan. Hagler's corner did do right telling Hagler to go hard the last two rounds vs duran from memory but they came up short at times too.

 

I've seen some argue Duran could've beaten Hags over 12 rounds that night.

Hindsight is a wonderful fighter/cornerman and teacher. He should've smashed Duran at that point, but perhaps Duran was better than most thought? I certainly look at that fight as a fine testament of Roberto's subtle skillset. Three inches taller, longer reach and same weight with Floyd or Hop's dedication to being in fighting shape - can you imagine? But then, if my auntie had meat and two veg then she'd be ...

 

I actually harped on a day or two ago about 12 rounds being a completely different dynamic if pre-determined. Hagler always had that extra gear vs Duran but was extremely paranoid in using it until the end of the fight was nigh. IMO being 12 rounds would have, if anything, led to a better performance form Hagler. There would have been a little more urgency and less worry about lasting and conserving.

 

You forgot to add that Marvin DID chop Vito up and get him out quickly in their rematch. Just saying.

 

Superb post

 

I think the 1980 - 81 Hagler beats the best Leonard ... Ray likely goes the distance but more to survive ultimately ... still a terrific match up ..

 

Why didn't Leonard fight Hagler instead of fighting Kevin Howard?

 

As @Saintpat has said a few times, you can't use the 12 or 15 round argument. Simply because a fighter will alter his tactics regarding the distance of the fight. For example a fighter will come on earlier in a fight if he knows it's a 12 rounder instead of 15 rounds.

 

He wanted to test the water and see how he went Clint, he didn't go so well at that time.

 

He had two eye surgeries and probably wanted to test things out.

His stated plan upon his return vs. Howard was a couple of 10-rounders to get himself back to where he wanted to be, then Milton McCrory, Donald Curry and a rubber match with Duran before Hagler. But the Howard fight convinced him at the time that he just wasn’t mentally where he needed to be and wasn’t interested in fighting.

BTW, his fight vs. Howard was a little over a month after Hagler fought Roldan after being postponed from the month before Hagler-Roldan (which had already been signed — Roldan was a mandatory that had been put off a couple of times by step-aside money).

Marvin at the time was easing into a ‘retirement plan’ schedule of fighting once or twice a year … common now but a very relaxed schedule for a champion at the time.

 

Not only that, but how many times have we seen a fighter who appeared to be tiring or near-done after 12 rounds come on strong in 13-15 in the days of real championship distance? You can’t assume a guy doesn’t catch a second wind, nor that his opponent might not start tiring and powering down.

It’s messing with the space-time continuum. You can’t assume that if you change one thing (the distance) that everything else stays the same.

 

Probably, but it would have been a UD verdict.

 

The undeserving champ thing was a thread about listing who you think is most unworthy, so that is not applicable here. But you do make good points.

I guess in my frame of mind I can be critical of boxers but not of there accomplishments in the ring. It's like holding respect for the office of the president I gu3ss.

I had a much better response laid out but the tablet died and it didn't autosave, but for the most part I get what u are saying