Luis Ortiz vs Sonny Liston

I pick Liston if he gets to soak his gloves in linament and the mob threatens the life of Ortiz’s daughter.

 

So glad you brought these issues up.Angelo Dundee himself said it wasn't liniment that got onto
Ali's gloves but instead it was Monsel's Solution,a coagulant used to treat cuts.Nor,according to
Dundee,was it a deliberate act by Liston's team.According to Dundee it was far more likely that
the Monsel's Solution got into Ali's eyes entirely by accident.
Also there is a theory,which has been given a lot of credence,that the mob had threatened members
of Sonny's family if he didn't take a dive in the second Ali fight.Makes total sense because if the mob
were going to threaten any family members it would be those of Liston.
Keep it up mate,you're doing a fine job.

 

Poor Sonny must’ve had hell to pay with mob after getting up and continuing to fight in the Ali rematch.

You’re just replacing speculations with speculations btw.

Ortiz actually passed his tests for Jennings, which is where peak performance and credible opposition crossed paths.

 

Blimey ! Talk about double standards.You make all sorts of accusations about Sonny Liston yet praise Luis Ortiz to the skies.
That's right Luis Ortiz,a confirmed drug cheat. If you believe that Ortiz didn't take steroids vs Wilder that's entirely up to you.
By the way,would you like to buy London Bridge ? I can sell it to you for a reasonable sum of money ( strictly cash ).

 

Speculations ? Hmm......do you have empirical evidence to back up your claims ? Just asking..........

 

Liston by a constant telephone poll jab session mixed with hard right counters.

 

What evidence have you to show that Liston thumbed Martin?

 

Liston cleaned out the heavyweight division before getting his long awaited opportunity at the title.
Will you now list all the top ten ranked heavyweights that Ortiz beat ?

 

Causing a retinal detachment is not a demonstration of scary power. That's the point.

 

If he cleaned it out, why didn't he fight Ingo? Ingo was the best contender of that era (when he wasn't champ).

Ortiz beat top 5er Jennings , who at 6'3, 230 was bigger than all of the contenders and champions (singular) that Liston beat. And he might even been better than all of them h2h.

 

The heavyweights Liston beat were not much bigger than the light heavyweights of Ortiz era and likely wouldn't even be fighting at heavyweight today so I don't know if Liston's resume is really relevant. It would be the equivalent of Ortiz fighting Joe Smith.

Liston could win but I don't see how much we can infer based on beating Patterson, Machen, etc.

 

More BS.

 

Ingo was offered $1000,000 to fight Liston and turned it down ,prior to that offer Ingo and Patterson tied up the title for 3 years,during which time Sonny was continually demanding a title shot,even to the extent of confronting D'Amato in his office.
In a 12 year pro career Ortiz has beaten exactly 1 ranked opponent.Jennings who was ranked for less than 6 months and, once beaten by the Cuban has never been ranked since?
Liston beat the following 200lb s plus heavies.
Bethea
Williamsx2
DeJohn
Besmanoff
Valdes
Wepner
King
Zech
Rush
Clark
McMurray.
Are you saying that be because he didnt beat a roster of fat modern heavyweights,who weren't available to him that he couldnt do so?
Wilder isnt appreciably heavier than many of Liston's victims.
Your argument is as devoid of logic as Oriz's resume is of wins over ranked heavyweights!

 

A little ironic that Ingo apparently is responsible for ducking Liston, but Ortiz is to blame for Joshua, Whyte, Parker and Fury refusing to go anywhere near him. Whyte was denied a shot a Wilder for not fighting Ortiz and Hearn signed Ortiz and still never made a Joshua fight.

Bryant was ranked for two straight annuals in the Ring. I suggest you stop lying.

Ortiz beat more and better real heavyweights than those guys. And, of course, Liston totally failed in two chances to show that he could compete with a talented heavyweight of decent size.