Legacies that would be better if a fighter had stayed retired

I usually have him right about there as well. Sometimes I even have him at one depending on what day of the week it is. But I still think his legacy and record would look better even if it does nothing for his greatness or ranking

 

I’d say probably not given that 49-0 is a lot more than 20-0 or whatever Jeffries would have been.

 

Not a blow to Marciano, but maybe a boost to Jeffries. He’d have been 14-0-1, but would have had extra kudos as being the first. He was already rated very highly by critics back in the day. As you say, Rocky’s 49-0 is a milestone in its own right regardless.

 

Both Benny Leonard and Joe Louis had to come back for financial reasons. Not memories one wants to hold onto seeing an idol huffing and puffing his way through a fight that would have been routine a few years earlier.

 

I would also add Jimmy Carruthers and Lionel Rose to the list of those who had to come back for financial reasons. One who did not need to come back was Ruben Olivares and it pained me to see him struggle with fighters who wouldn't be a sparring partner a few years earlier.

 

Had Mike retired after beatingb Spinks his career would look like:

- A record of 35-0-0 (30 KOs)
- Losing between 10 and 15 rounds over his entire pro career.
- Resume includes six current or former Heavy weight belt-holders (including two ATGs), four of them by KO.
- Unification of all the titles, undisputed and linear.
- All before the age Ali became champion for the first time, and only seven weeks older than anyone ever won a HW title.

Had he sailed off into the sunset, I think he is one of those whose standing would have benefitted from early retirement.

My top ten:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Lennox Lewis
4. George Foreman
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Larry Holmes
7. Joe Frazier
8. Mike Tyson
9. Sonny Liston
10. Wladimir Klitschko

I would probably have him no lower than three.

And some would forever argue for two or even one.

 

Yes, I agree that Jeffries is no high on the radar of he man in the street, or even the average casual boxing fan.

But then again, he's not much lower in profile than Jack Johnson or Ezzard Charles, or Jim Walker.

The casual fan's 'radar' doesn't go much further back than Ali or Liston.

Maybe they've heard of Marciano or Louis, but that's usually it.

 

I feel like most of them have heard of Johnson, even Sullivan is relatively well known amongst casual boxing fans. Jeffries was kind of shunned by the public for his loss to Jack, and faded into obscurity to the casuals.

 

Surprised nobody mentioned Sugar Ray Leonard. He climbed the mountain when he beat Hagler. Losing to Norris and then Camacho in spectacular fashion didn't enhance his resume.

 

Didn’t really hurt it either. He was playing with house money by that point.

 

Michael Spinks
Evander Holyfield
RJJ

 

The image of him helpless on the ropes while Camacho was celebrating makes me sad to this day.

 

Oh, plenty of cases where it’s sad to see a fighter go on too long, but losses at the end of a career well past prime don’t impact anyone’s legacy.

Find me where people say Sugar Ray Robinson wasn’t one of the best P4P of all time (if not THE best) because of losses he incurred at the end of his career after coming back. Find me where people say Ali’s not an ATG heavyweight because of the Holmes or Berbick fights.

It can be sad, but that’s not how people judge those fighters.

 

I'm not even a big Real Deal fan but it made me sad seeing James Toney celebrating a stoppage of a deeply faded Holyfield.

 

Yes.

Exactly this. The what if's.

Greta Garbo...James Dean...etc.?



BTW, when I was a younger man, avidly following the on-again off-again Reykjavik excitement, hoping it would actually happen, Bobby WAS invincible. And remained so for at least another couple of years...till the other mental issues got worse and he started to lose the plot completely.

IMO, I have him tied with Paul Morphy as the most naturally gifted chess player of all time.

(And both men had serious mental issues from a relatively early age.)