Slowest boxers in history?

Gary Mason was slow on his feet but had fast hands

 

Not mad,merely observant.

 

The title thread says “slowest boxers in history”
You can’t become heavyweight champion of the world beating a host of top contenders including a speedy champion and be in that category.

 

Agreed.

 

I had a fight on pause overnight and woke up and they STILL haven’t thrown a punch … or moved an inch.

 

I think we can all instead benefit from watching actual film instead.

 

Foreman.

 

Liston wasn't slow. Any student of boxing who has actually studied a few of his fights prior to Ali, and not just the highlights of the Ali fights know this.

 

Jim Watt was noted during his reign for being slower than most lightweights. Yet he conclusively decisioned the fastest man in boxing, Howard Davis, Jr. He led at all times on the scorecards against Sean O'Grady, and in a wildly atypical slow retreat, went the Championship Distance with Arguello, one of only three to ever achieve that (Ernesto Marcel and uber rugged Arturo Leon being the other two). Watt also performed credibly over the Championship Distance against ATG Ken Buchanan, who forced Carlos Ortiz into retirement just two bouts previously with Ken's vastly superior hand speed and quickness.

Watt was slower but also much physically stronger than most lightweights, also very smart and with a superb sense of rhythm behind his right jab. (Jim was a right hander who discovered he was most comfortable boxing from a southpaw stance.) Extremely well conditioned.

Considering his lack of speed, he achieved substantially. His first and last defeats over the Championship Distance were to two ATGs. After O'Grady, the boxing magazines declared that only a great fighter could take his title, not merely a very good one. So it was. Then he bowed out in a classy and timely way despite Arguello's expressed willingness to rematch him.


Very pleased but somewhat surprised Marciano hasn't been cited in this thread. His vastly superior hand speed decimated Rex Layne, his subtle defensive moves were underrated but have been highlighted on YouTube, and the lightning jab-double hook which crumbled Harry Matthews struck out of nowhere. Rocky would definitely not belong here.

Not Jess Willard either. There is footage of his jab darting in and out on Frank Moran before Moran even had a chance to extend his left out.

 

Hi Buddy.
Excellent and pinpoint observation, and analytical breakdown of a very competent fighter, and kudos to you for bringing it to the fold, many a poster should be nodding his/her head in approval, and few discerning counters, many thanks.
stay safe amigo.

 

But, as you just said, there are many HWs slower than Liston, which hardly makes him part of the conversation as per the thread title.

 

Its the roids. When Holyfield equips these items in his skill tray, they give him +3 in STR and DUR in exchange for -3 SPD. You have to watch Holmes though. If not careful he'll sneak a Potion for +5 HLTH recovery like he did against Shavers. There is no other way to explain how he got back up after Shavers hit him with that right hand.

 

I should add CT that my reply wasn’t meant to be curt, dismissive or by any means control the parameters for discussion. Discussions should flow freely and if they need to slightly detour to make a point, so be it.

The key point was that original post (quoted in part) was part of a longer reply in opposition to the specific suggestion that Liston was slow and among the slowest.

So discussing Liston in general is of course fine - and if one thinks he was slow, that’s their opinion which they have a right to.

So, accounting for all opinions, the subject of Liston wasn’t really meandering off subject - rather, I simply see him as not fitting the category of being one of the slowest - not being part of the “conversation” was just a turn of phrase to say as much.

Totally agree that some fighters don’t have to be lightning fast to land - and whatever their hand speed, it can also be supplemented by skills, timing, reach etc.

Interesting to examine why some of the relatively slower fighters do manage to land.

Second career Foreman was awfully slow imo BUT he performed with a solid, fundamental skill set and good size (incl. height and reach).

He didn’t always land either but when he did, it could be hurtful and disruptive to his opponent - enough to allow George to land more punches in follow up and of course induce his opponent to back up thereafter - putting themselves into an even more vulnerable position.

Valuev had extreme, greater size, height and reach to facilitate the delivery of his punches even if they weren’t fast punches. So I guess those features would be key to whatever success he had landing his shots.

While I don’t think Liston was slow, certainly his reach helped to get the punches home - but he also threw nice inside punches of respectable speed. I linked a clip of his quick destruction of Wayne Bethea - just imo, Liston literally looked fast - a lighter, faster and younger Liston (212 lb?) than the more often seen version in Miami.

While Liston enjoyed the advantage of a telescopic jab it was also not slow. However, his jab was also multi purposed and I have observed a variance in its speed depending on the application - sometimes Sonny merely extended it out to obscure the vision of his opponent or employed it as a feint.