Will there be a 160 pound man in the next 3 decades who could beat Ali head to head?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Jun 17, 2022.


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  1. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Frazier was all over the place about Ali.
    You can see a video where his son chides him for a phone message where he takes credit for Ali's condition.
    He would hate Ali then be sentimental, the way Ali treated him it is quite understandable.
    But better Frazier moved past it-at some dinner other HWs, Norton, Holmes, intervened to stand between him & Ali as Frazier bitterly berated him.

    A friend took a pilgrammage to Philly on his motorcycle, Joe was really generous, gave him signed gloves-then came running out to offer him the same thing.
    My pal said Frazier seemed to think he won all 3 fights-not just that he deserved the decisions.
    I think alcohol likely played a role in his later life condition.
     
    Entaowed, May 23, 2023
    Entaowed, May 23, 2023
    #121
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  2. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    Under boxing rules, no.
    Nobody at 160 lbs is beating prime Ali.

    In fact, regardless of weight, we'd have to wait a long time for an Ali-conqueror to arrive.

    But some day, no doubt, one will come.
     
    cuchulain, May 23, 2023
    cuchulain, May 23, 2023
    #122
  3. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Bob N Weave Full Member

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    No one but you was thinking that I meant Ali would lose to an MMA fighter under boxing rules, I’m not that bad.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2023
    Journeyman92, May 23, 2023
    Journeyman92, May 23, 2023
    #123
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  4. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    Good.

    Noted.

    The most notable fight between a top MMA and a top boxer was Floyd-Magregor, and it was conducted under boxing rules, so I was just stating boxing rules for clarity.

    No harm done.
     
    cuchulain, May 23, 2023
    cuchulain, May 23, 2023
    #124
  5. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Yeah, it's interesting that there seems to be this magic, invisible line somewhere between 161 and 171 that you have to cross to be competitive with pre-60s heavyweights. Walker was 170 in his draw with Sharkey. Conn might have been 169 versus Louis. Fitzsimmons was 167 for lots of his heavyweight fights. Greb fell into that category as well. Choynski same thing, IIRC. Langford against Bill Lang was 166.

    As an aside about Langford, Johnson is given credit for beating a 156 pound version, so...
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2023
    cross_trainer, May 23, 2023
    cross_trainer, May 23, 2023
    #125
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  6. Levook

    Levook Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I would say not likely within the next thirty years because it would take at least that long for boxers to learn to be as good as when top fighters were fighting each other more often.

    But of course, the possibility exists. I suppose stranger things have happened.
     
    Levook, May 23, 2023
    Levook, May 23, 2023
    #126
  7. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I
    My bad. It was Butch Lewis. Butch Davis was a football coach.
     
    ThatOne, May 23, 2023
    ThatOne, May 23, 2023
    #127
  8. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    Marvelous Marvin Monzon. Ha Ha Ha.
     
    Richard M Murrieta, May 23, 2023
    Richard M Murrieta, May 23, 2023
    #128
  9. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Ali wouldn't "butcher" Ezzard Charles. If anything, if you had to pick a sub 200 pounder to get the job done vs Ali, Chalres would be on that short list. Granted, he was well larger than 160 in his prime.
     
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, May 23, 2023
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, May 23, 2023
    #129
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  10. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    160 would be much too small. If one said 185 or 190, maybe, but still a stretch. But at least that would be a cruiser and we did see a 190 pound guy like Floyd Patterson manage to hold his own, but still lost. Imagine if Patterson was 160 pounds vs Ali. He'd have been carried out of the ring.
     
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, May 23, 2023
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, May 23, 2023
    #130
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  11. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Right, so now that I've thoroughly made a mess, I'll throw a thought of my own in:

    160 may be too light. I'd be willing to believe, though, that something closer to 170 will eventually be enough if combined with future technological advances in training. Something like messing with genetics. That's based on occasional 165-170 pound anomalies performing well against pre-contemporary heavies throughout history.

    At some point, the games people play with new scientific training methods are going to make comparisons with old timers unfair. This is no knock on Ali; he didn't have the opportunity to use whatever toys they'll invent in the future.

    I doubt there's a 170 pound man right now who could do it, though. Not even with chemical assistance.
     
    cross_trainer, May 23, 2023
    cross_trainer, May 23, 2023
    #131
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  12. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    A fighter that uses Modern (Steroids) Nutrition. ha ha.
     
    Richard M Murrieta, May 23, 2023
    Richard M Murrieta, May 23, 2023
    #132
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Butchered.

    Smaller technicians were disastrous against Ali. Floyd Patterson, Zora Folley, Jimmy Ellis, Jerry Quarry, Bob Foster, he dominated every single one of them, I think he actually stopped every single one of them, once he had Jones out of the way.

    Charles might get through but he'd finish the fight with a head like a watermelon. He'd get absolutely battered against Ali. Bigger and faster is the single hardest combination to overcome in heavyweight boxing and it was the case here. Charles would be thrashed.
     
    McGrain, May 24, 2023
    McGrain, May 24, 2023
    #133
  14. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Bob N Weave Full Member

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    None of those men are Ezzard Charles or close.
     
    Journeyman92, May 24, 2023
    Journeyman92, May 24, 2023
    #134
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  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I don't agree. I think, at heavyweight, Floyd Patterson is right in Ezzard's class and can be picked to beat him without it being weird or strange.

    Regardless, I don't think it matters where you rank Patterson relative to Charles. Ali is faster. Ali is bigger. Ali is almost as great in a p4p sense and far, far greater at heavyweight. He looks better on film best-for-best on film. If they were having a fight in the real world, very few people would pick Charles. The reason is, it's unlikley he would win.
     
    McGrain, May 24, 2023
    McGrain, May 24, 2023
    #135
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