James J. Jeffries vs. Jersey Joe Walcott

We have been over all of this ad tedium before.

Regardless of how old/heavy Jeffries challengers were, they were still the best ones available for the most part, and that ultimately counts for something.

Regardless of what difficulties he might have encountered, the bottom line is that he beat them all.

Walcott would also be smaller than him, and somewhat older if we are choosing a version that has any sort of chance, so it is a moot point.

How much does drawing the color line hurt Jeffries legacy?

Very little to be honest.

There was no potential black challenger in his class until Johnson peaked, and probably none before that who would even have made a decent challenger, outside of Martin.

Based on resumes you would conclude that Walcott was closer to Fitzsimmons level than he was to Jeffries, and that Jeffries was closer to Marciano's level than he was to Walcott's.

 

So you are saying,Johnson,Martin ,and Mcvey would not have been better opponents for Jeffries than Finnegan, Corbett2 ,and Munro ? Explain to me how these 3 challengers merited title shots?

 

If you subscribe to that premise, yes it would.

 

If Usyk stated," I won't fight a black challenger,I won't risk losing my title to one,"
What would be the public, and the boxing organizations reaction ?

 

Hi Buddy.
Different times, hugely different, back then properly most of the country backed that line of thought sadly, you cannot compare 1900s to now, just doesnt work I am afraid, sometimes I think civilisation has come a long way from the thinking and actions of a over century ago, then events prove they have not......
stay safe hombre.

 

Yes I think its a reasonable premise.I dont subscribe to it myself because in all honesty we have to start somewhere but it is not without merit imo.
Let's alter history for a moment Jack Johnson is champion would ,as his top challengers Sullivan, Fitz ,Corbett ,Jeffries refuse title shots if they were offered?
I highly doubt it!
Godfrey was really the only credible black challenger when Sullivan was in his prime ,Sullivan pulled out of a match with him.and, when past his best turned a deaf ear to Jackson's challenges understandable reaily.

Fitz didnt defend his title successfully so perhaps we can cut him some slack,though he certainly did not go looking for Jackson when he himself was a title aspirant. Corbett met a slightly past prime Jackson, who fought under the handicap of a sprained ankle,honours were even.As champ Corbett wanted no part of Jackson.Jeffries was happy to fight black men when he was an up and comer, but times beyond count stated he would never risk his crown against one.
At best the heavyweight crown when held by these legendary figures was a devalued one imo.

 

Just having some fun Mike.ATB

 

Ok buddy, we cool, chat soon.

 

Martin was at best a viable title challenger.

Yes he was better than some of the guys that Jeffries used as tune ups, but I don't think that he was much better than say Gus Ruhlin.

Having said that Jeffries undoubtedly refused to face him due to teh color of his skin.

There is actually very little overlap between Jeffries title reign, and teh period where Johnson and McVea were viable challengers.

If he had decided to face one of them, it would essentially have been in place of Munro, so whether he had won or lost, that woudl have left his existing title reign intact.

While Jefferies is probably the most culpable of the champions who drew the color bar, ironically he is perhaps the one whose reign was damaged the lest by his stance.

 

The Jackson Corbett draw is perhaps the strongest counterargument to that.

 

No actually it isnt, because Corbett did not beat Jackson and he avoided a rematch.

 

Well thats your interpretation and you are of course entltled to it.

 

I love how every Jeffries thread ends up becoming a 5 page thread

 

The argument could run thus:

Jim Corbett held Peter Jackson (who was the outstanding contender) to a draw, then he took the title from poor old John L Sullivan, who had unified every single title claim.

That sounds pretty conclusive to me.

 

Sharkey vs. Walcott is actually a pretty intriguing fight. Here's someone stylistically similar to Rocky, with ATG tier chin and durability. Not to mention Sharkey had power and stamina. It's a close fight.