Corbett vs Foreman. 1893, 45 rounds

I've seen all the available film of Jeffries vJohnson and read countless round by round reports of the fight.I see Jeffries being pro-active going forward and Johnson allowing him to exhaust himself early on ,this is confirmed in post fight statements made byJohnson.
No Jeffries went into light training 18 months before the fight he did so to see how his body reacted to the dscipline and only then did he give Sam Berger his representative the confirmation to begin discussing contracts

I have seen all the Johnson v Jeffries footage that is extant,I have also read multiple round by round summaries of the fight.
In the footage I see Johnson permitting Jeffries to be the pro-active agressor
allowing him to use up his strength. The usual modus operandi of Johnson.
Johnson, both before and after their fight ,said he always believed he could match Jeffries in strength,and as he correctly predicted he would be the one bossing the clinches.

Jeffries vaunted strength was on show against a class 208lbs man in which fights?
Jeffries made a career out of beating up smaller and usually older opponents. the only man of class he beat near his own size was 199lbs Ruhlin who had a panic attack after taking a couple of shots to the ribs.

I'm not saying Jeffries was prime when he fought Johnson but the implication that a prime Jeffries would be physically able to push Johnson around is not supported by their respective records.
Neither Rickard,Fitzsimmons, Corbett Sharkey,Choynski.Langford,Jeannette,Sullivan ,or London said Jeffries was washed up BEFORE the fight,they all predicted a Jeffries victory! Please post round by round reports of the 1st Jeffries v Corbett fight that indicate Corbett held his own in the clinches.They are not in any reports of the fight that I have read.

 

70 pounds over the course of a year is still a significant weight loss for a 36 year old to do, especially before a fight. This is weight that should be lost over the a slower pace, and losing it so quickly would almost certainly impact the strength of Jeffries. This isn't enough time to build back necessary muscle and endurance.

Out of curiosity, what are your sources for this information? For the 70 pounds, the time he took to lose weight, etc

 

I hate to be that guy, but here goes.

While people are justified in favoring Foreman, I feel that if Corbett somehow managed to stay out of his way for long enough, there does come a point eventually where he takes over.

 

Corbett definitely had the footwork and movement to trouble George

 

Marathon boxing at it's finest.

 

Can someone remind me who Corbett actually beat in his career? Aside from a worthless, shot alchy with a badly healed broken arm who had been given up for dead twice.

 

As I have said Jeffries went into light training 18 months before the fight he also began watching his weight , you are implying he lost the weight on a crash diet .Jeffries was not sitting on the porch of his farm in retirement he was working it and working daily harvesting the crop , Alfalfa.
My sources are Pollacks bios of Johnson and Jeffries,Unforgiveable Blackness by Ward ,and Papa Jack by Roberts.Tyson Fury recently lost about the same amount of weight in much less time, came back and beat Wilder,though he only got a draw.
I see no reason why a man of 36 can't be as strong as he was at 30 as Jeffries was when he first retired.
What information have you to hand that points us to the contrary?

 

Corbett has just about the worst resume of any lineal heavyweight champion.
He was outmuscled and overpowered by 5 ft 8 in183lbs Sharkey.
What 6 ft 3in 220lbs Foreman would do to him doesn't bear thinking about!

 

****ing hell. Everyone that got in the ring with Foreman had the potential footwork and movement to trouble George if they hand no other option. Bell rings and run like you know your life depended on it. Referee eventually disqualifies you and you live to run and move another day.

 

If Foreman can lift 214 pound Frazier into the air with a single uppercut, the lanky 167 Corbett might end up sailing over the ropes. It would be comical, like watching a shoryuken uppercut in street fighter.

 

Sullivan,Fitzsimmons,Corbett,Sharkey,Langford,Jeannette ,Choynski ,All picked Jeffries to win.Corbett,and Choynski sparred with him.
What they said AFTER the fight is irrelevant to what they said BEFORE IT! I never said or implied you said Corbett crushed Jeffries in a clinch I asked you to provide proof that he held his own in those clinches which is what
you stated.You haven't.

So kindly stop trying to move the gaol posts.
Which boxer would beat Johnson after years of inactivity is totally irrelevant to the subject at hand, which is how well Jeffries did against Johnson?

The answer to that is badly, he had one good round the 4th,read the fight reports.
Johnson said that was the only round in which a punch from Jeffries really registered with him.[it was a body shot].
As early as the start of the 6th rd Corbett told Jeffries brother Jack,"your Brothers beat what shall we do?"
They discussed Jeffries fouling out, throwing in the towel etc.

Jeffries took his beating with stoic courage.but lets not pretend he was ever in the fight ,he wasnt!
Jeffries was less than 3 years older than Johnson ,it wasn't age that beat him it was his own greed because he was making a fortune in vaudeville and reluctant to begin sparring until late.

Sam Langford stated Jeffries was in fine shape," he wouldn't have been able to take all that punishment if he wasn't." Choynski said it wasn't physical condition that beat Jeffries,but a mental collapse. Haven't you read all these quotes and reports?

 

You provided no proof of your assertions that Corbett held Jeffries even in the clinches ,and you wont because such proof does not exist! Read the fight report!
The opinion of the vast majority,the experts, the reporters and the public was before the Reno fight was that and I quote."Jeffries Has Come Back" ,he was the overwhelming favourite to win and by ko. That is not my opinion,its the opinion of the vast majority of experts that watched Jeffries train.


You have consistently dodged addressing this information in favour of asking ,who,in the same condition as Jeffries could have beaten Johnson? That has no logic or bearing on the subject And as I say that is irrelevant to your claims that Jeffries pushed Johnson back early on.Which by the way, is contradicted on film and by ringside observers.

Bail If you want, but do so knowing that you've ducked the essential questions and that I know it too.

 

Who does Pollack, Ward and Roberts cite in their books? What is the original source for Jeffries being 70 pounds overweight?

Even 18 months is too small a time frame to lose 70 pounds and be ready to compete in the ring again, especially in your mid 30s. Muscle mass is naturally in decline after the age of 30, and Jeffries began his training 18 months ahead of the Johnson fight. That means he only started training in February of 1909.

This, IMO, is not a good enough time frame for his body to attain his peak physique that he had in 1904. Tyson Fury's body certainly wasn't in the shape it had been in 2015 when he originally came back, it took years for his body to get used to the dramatic weight loss that occurred. I believe that it was the same case for Jeffries.