I read that leading up to the Tyson fight, Holyfield benched 365 lbs for 10 reps

The record for RAW bench press @ 220 lbs. max, which prime Holyfield fell within, is 619 lbs!
So Holyfield would be @130 lbs. away from that: the thread led off with saying that Holyfield's 1 rep max was 500 lbs.: I did it in my head & said it was no more than 485-490.
Now I used the 1 rep max calculator & confirmed that it is 486.7.

You may mean powerlifters in many meets: but the record for meets is almost always LESS than what Holyfield surely did, which is just the BP.

It is extremely plausible that Holyfield or anyone with decent genetic potential AND on great PEDs for a while & with expert trainers & suppliers-such as BALCO labs + 8 time Mr. Olympia Mr. Lee Haney...
Could do 365 X 10 reps.
And we do not even know if he did it raw.

Add in that he was much better at reps than a 1 rep max, this is

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surprising.
Baseball guys like Bonds/Sosa/McGuire likely could do ~ at least whatever was his 1 rep max.

[url]https://www.powerliftingwatch.com/records/raw/world[/url]

 

You sonuva....

 

You don't even get what I meant, yet you did your calculations and the usual idiotic conclusions of yours. Fine. You, especially you, will suffer to convince a man that's into both sports that a boxer outperforms powerlifters (guys that are surely on PEDs) that fall in the same weight class as him - just check the average results: [url]Powerlifting Rankings (openpowerlifting.org)[/url]. I never said he's close to the best ones.

 

Nope it is not fine: don't call anyone an "idiot" or similar unbrave verbal abuse at a secure anonymous distance again.
Otherwise I'll report you for bringing down the forum!

You were never spoken to me in such an immateur, cruelly intended way with me.
The essence of civility is being able to disagree without being vicious.

I think you are wrong, but it's morally wrong & seems insecure to be hateful because you think the other guy is wrong.

Now then, about the facts:

1) I'm into both sports too, & sometimes people even more into a sport can be dead wrong.
That you know a good deal about them goes no way to prving you are correct-specifics arguments are needed.'
Of which you address few, but...

2) You did not refute the calculations, but made a petty insult.

3) You are are mistaken that I said Holyfield beats or approaches the World Record: I was just showing how FAR he was from it.

4) A boxer outperforms SOME powerlifters at SOME level of competition? Sure, sometimes that will happen.
4a) Especially if you are comparing apples to...different varieties of apples.
You ignored my point that guys at a meet routinely do worse than if they just compete in one event, for obvious reasons of gettting tired & conservation of energy (sometimes) to effect higher totals.

5) A bigger mistake is another thing you dod not address: that the 1 rep max I corrected the OP about is just a predicted/likely one.
Yet again-as has been pointed out about Holyfield-he was particularly good at reps.
The odds are low he would get a 486.7 1 rep max-especially not training for it-let alone 500 lbs.
But you test him in the standard 225 max category, he likely does around as well as much stronger guys/like many NFL lineman, just because his muscular endurance is so good.

A boxer *not* on PEDs would be highly unlikely to outperform guys his size who compete in the event-well at least at compete at a decent level.

6) But the MAIN point I established is that 365 X 10 for someome well over 200 lbs. with almost certainly at least decent natural potential/not bird-boned, (small point, especially when so top-heavy like Holyfield...) It is NOT amazing for someone training hard for years PLUS on a likely long term cocktail of PEDs!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Like the other gentleman who was under 200 lbs. & at best could 1 rep max over 400 said BUT was clean for a lifetime said, he likely could have matched Holyfield WITH his advantages---> especially PEDs.
I can give other examples, even extrapolating what I likely could have done if I ever did a similar program...
But another Wild Card is how much an individual is a "responder" to PEDs. This even applies to Creatine.
Some folks naturally get...a much bigger bump from these UNnatural methods.

 

I am not going into your bla-blah claiming Holyfield, being around 100 kg benches almost as much as [url]Jamal Browner at 110 kg[/url].

By the way, the last time you reported someone for "bringing down the forum" it was you that got banned for the very same reason right because of your usual insanity, Mr. Brave on live.

 

That's me

 

I know he was on PEDS but I doubt he hit those numbers. When it comes to bench press claims a good rule of thumb is 'film or it didn't happen' and even then who knows about the plates, lol.

 

Why assume that all claims that are not cforrnerated by video are false?
That seems extreme, a presumption of lies.
Might as well go further & note the many ways video could be faked.
In fact we are rapidlly approaching the time when anyone doing anything can be faked so well by A.I. that even experts cannot tell what is real...

It would be reasonable to say I reserve judgement, to be neutral without further evidence.
But we can analyze it logically-it is not at all implausible that a man with decent genetic potential who is receiving the best training & PEDs available for a long time can reach 365 X 10 reps.
Especially for a man better at reps than 1 rep maxes.
The 500 lbs. figure even if he had as good limit strength as a full set-which he did not-was rounded up as I established.

You can also look at it another way to determine what is plausible.
Consider what an average man could potentially reach, completely naturally.
Of course he must have the same advantages as Holyfield.
Then add at least a small % for Holyfield just having a larger bone structure than average.
And unless you assume that Holyfield being better at reps is a lie-add that-& assume his 1 rep max, even WITH all the PEDs, was likely

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450 lbs.
Then mainly add the significant % that PEDs can add.

I can go throughe specific examples if you like, but can you really say that this-combined with the upper body mass Holyfield obviously had-is at all implausible?

I'll give another argument.
365 lbs. 1 RM all natural & raw/no equipment & without being in the big arch allowed in powerlifting is a bit beyond the average man.
It would certainly not be beyond someone with above average, but not nearly any real statistical outlier potential.

Then add all the drugs + better at reps, don't you think all the PEDs can increase your max capacity from 1 to 10 reps over time?

 

Even if you're better at reps, 365 x 10 (funny how it's 3 plates and a 50, huh?) will give you a huge 1 rep max. 450 is a really a big number, especially for a non power lifter who is still doing endurance training. Again, yes I believe most bench press claims are doubtful and to me this is no exception.

And let me be very clear here, I did not say it would have been impossible or that I know for sure, just that I doubt it.

 

Not a good idea to weight lift during training for a boxing match, it can make a fighter muscle bound or better yet cause an injury like a torn Bicep.

 

I did not assume all claims that are not "cforrnerated" by video are false. I said a good rule of them regarding bench pressing claims is 'film or it didn't happen.' And of course being the insufferable bore you are you couldn't detect I was at least trying to be a little bit humorous there.

 

Holyfield had a chance to actually hit this. He was on an incredible doping program, especially watch him during the Tyson fight, his lats and traps look very unreasonable and definitely the product of serious PEDs and great work ethic, but for God sake, he looked really really unnatural. If any light heavy could have pulled this off it would have been holyfield.

But I will still remain a solid no until I see video proof, everything at this point is pure speculation.

 

I gotchya!
450 IS a very big #. And many folks do exaggerate, some get it wrong; some LIE.
But 450 is not such a big # for someone who is lifting seriously for years and with the assistance of Top Flight trainers...
And mainly, long term, very effective regimen of PEDs.

Difference is you think it is unlikely; I believe it is plausible.
Part of it is looking at his upper body too.
But sure maybe he was not that much over 400-we cannot know.

But what is unusual about 3 plates & 2 quarters? That is a stadard set up for someone who can move such weight.

 

Ah no I thought you were being literal. I knew you meant it was possible but not believing it unless documented that way, but those words suggested you did not think it was at all likely.

You can see me joking about tons of things for over a decade, with some wholly surreal & popular posts.
But let us say I did not comprehend what you meant-rather than my claim that it sounded like you thought it was very likely wrong or a lie-granted not impossible...

Why be nasty even IF you thought I did not get you?
Not understanding-either one of us-does not make us boring.

But such unkind talk usually causes problems & is unjustified.
About being Decent & maintaining the Respect & Integrity of this Forum...
That I will cop to being pedantically "boring" about.

 

That very Old School belief has been proven entirely wrong for decades.
As someone who has lifted & read about it for years, know that it is pretty easy to train so you do not get "muscle bound"& avoid a biceps tear.
Briefly, folks can limit how much mass they add, flexibility & proper warm ups + choosing the right excercises & workloads avoid injury, etc.

The vast majority of fighters use wsome weight training-& often other & advanced techniques, some outside or overlapping with lifting, such as plyometrics, bands, chains etc-often for explosiveness.
You can also train more for muscular endurance, & various PEDs increase certain of thiese attributes differentially (much as I am against using any cheatin' drugs).

If this was not the case, you would see frequent weight training related injuries & fighters coming in too muscular.
Sometimes a fighter needs to dial it back, such as Joshua (at least against some fighters) being better in the mid 230's than ~ 20 lbs. heavier.
But even that weight-lean as he is at it-would not likely be achieved by him absent weight training!
And the vast majority of fighters benefit from using it judiciously
And things like moving up divisions effectively..