Sonny Liston vs Rocky Marciano

There's no way to justify Valdes staying in the rankings after losing to two unranked opponents who did nothing prior to or after beating Valdes that suggests they were world class. He hadn't rebounded with any great wins and the win over London whatever you think of London wouldn't factor in because it hadn't happened yet.

We are free to use common sense here

 

Like I said, take it up with Nat Fleischer not me.

Yeah common sense tells us Dick Richardson was one of the ten best heavyweights in the world, yet you don't consider him world-class. You're a clown.

 

WTF has Tyson to do with this thread?

 

End of year rankings
1953 Valdes no1
1954 Valdes no1
Do stop with this!

 

Liston beat 7 of those 9 contenders,another, Cooper would not fight him.

 

No, the accusations were just as false as the other times. It’s a pretty bad show when another way of looking at the same facts is always dismissed as a lie.

Valdes was unranked come July 1959.

Liston did enjoy weight advantage in more of his top fights than Marciano did.

jersey Joe knocked out Harold Johnson before Johnson beat Valdes and Machen.

Saterfield knocked out Williams after losing to a similar aged Layne by knockout.

Lloyd Gibson did beat Archie Moore before losing to Rex Layne.

There nothing untrue here

 

QUOTE="choklab, post: 22336824, member: 50845"]This is precisely what happened. Powell and Alonzo whupped Valdes from the ratings then both lost their next fights. I even posted the ratings showing that Alex miteff and Roy Harris had replaced Powell and Alonzo in the ratings by the time Liston fought Valdes. Nino was, as we know, unrated for Liston.[/QUOTE]Valdes got his number 1 ranking by beating the number 1 challenger Charles,he did not get a title shot.

Valdes lost his no1 spot to Moore who did get a title shot.

 

Your track record is there for all to see, you have even been called on it by moderator in the past .You are ,imo a dishonest poster .

 

You are more familiar with the moderator than I am. There is nothing distinctly dishonest here. Just another way of looking at things.

 

Anybody calling me a liar here?

 

People absolutely have the right to their own opinions and their individual way of looking at things, but going around and around and around and around in an effort to convince people that those opinions and individual ways of looking at things are right and everyone else's are wrong when there's absolutely zero chance of anyone's opinions and ways of looking at things changing is, basically, trolling. Sometimes you need to do what swag said he was going to do and simply walk away. Which I am going to do as well from this thread, or at least try to. I believe that if Sonny Liston and Rocky Marciano, at their absolute peaks as boxers, fought 100 times, Sonny Liston would win 95 of those bouts, if not more, within four rounds. I think I have clearly articulated why. Nothing you or anyone else can say will change my mind. So be it. Neither of us will ever know for sure.

 

This is absolutely true. Nino then sustained a ranking by staying undefeated. I Cannot argue with that. But Charles got that shot by going ahead of Nino. It’s well documented that Charles was the logical contender. A status that superseded number one contender during the set up at that time. Check it out. It’s true. The rematch was supposed to be Marciano vs Valdes…but there was more call for a Charles rematch based on the initial super fight.

well Valdes was behind other more logical contenders until October 54 when he was finally named “logical” and he stayed logical until jully 1955 when Archie became logical. So he was in line for maybe 9 months until Moore beat him the second time.

 

You are entitled to think this. Absolutely. And I shan’t call you a liar either.

 

In 1960
Floyd Patterson
Ingemar Johansson
Sonny Liston
Eddie Machen
Zora Folley
Archie Moore
Harold Johnson
Mike DeJohn
Roy Harris
Bob Cleroux
Cleveland Williams
Henry Cooper
Were all better than Richardson by my reckoning probably Chuvalo too

I just came up with a top 10 list without Richardson easily

 

Sonny Listons resume seems totally at odds with where people rate him H2H. He's probably better than his resume indicates but the top guys he beat were the size of today's light heavyweights.

It would be like people claiming Dmitry Bivol as some H2H heavyweight beast who would beat Tyson and Holyfield