Marciano v Liston's Best Opponents?

Cockell was chosen for the most part to test the Rock's nose. Ezzard Charles rip it in 2 in the Rock's last fight. Cockell would be little risk vs say Valez if the nose came undone in the fight.

 

I don’t think the extra physical size of a challenger was even a consideration in those days before science changed sport.


I have seen an article where Valdes and Cockell were legitimately considered equal.


“Robert Christenberry, chairman of the New York State Athletic Commission, and America's "Mr. Boxing," said on Sunday that world heavyweight champion Rocky Marcianoshould fight either Britain's Don Cockell or Nino Valdes, of Cuba, for the title. Mr. Christenberry said that Marciano, who was "a great champion," should choose his next opponent. "If you take the records of Cockell and Valdes there is very little between them,"

 

I had to argue with some yahoos online who thought that Machen would DESTROY Archie Moore. I said that he only thinks that because Moore lost to Marciano while Machen lost to Liston and Liston lost to Ali. I then informed him how Machen was outboxed by Harold Johnson who was stopped by Archie Moore. That was the end of that. I do think that the Moore of 1955 would beat the Machen of 1960.

 

Rocky Marciano vs Eddie Machen, or Cleveland Big Cat Williams.

 

Your paranoia is on another level. You realize just because someone thinks a Liston opponent beats a Marciano opponent, it doesn't mean their's an agenda at play here right? My God, you have problems.

Frazier beat Ali, then got decapitated by Foreman. Ali has no chance against Foreman.

 

Valdes ever ko'd by a middleweight?
The US press absolutely slammed the Cockell fight as a blatant mismatch.
"They tell me this guys nothing so why am I fighting him ?" Marciano.
What happened when Cockell and Valdes fought each other?
A DUTIFUL GLUTTON

But the sad truth is that Don Cockell never will do better than he did against Rocky Marciano in the waning light of Kezar Stadium. American boxing writers had not underestimated him in unanimously dubbing him as a hand-picked opponent with whom Marciano would toy for a little while before he knocked him out. They had only underestimated his gluttony. He can eat thundering left and right hooks by the dozen, stagger around the ring like a Skid Road drunk, throw up between rounds from the force of the body blows, and then rise dutifully at the sound of the bell for another frightful three minutes of the same. Don Cockell was acclaimed by sportswriters on both sides of the Atlantic for his ability to absorb hundreds of Marciano's hardest blows, and one Englishman went so far as to write that "...this was the kind of extra courage which makes you proud to belong to the human race and to have been sired by the same breed as the boy who grew up in the back streets of Battersea."

ANOTHER BRAVE BULL

The plain fact is that Don Cockell is not too much of a fighter, despite the fact that most of us thought he would only be around for five or six rounds and he managed to suffer on for eight or nine. He's just another brave bull who comes straight at you, holding and moving his hands fairly well until he gets tired; he doesn't hit nearly hard enough for the head-on style he uses, nor does he have any of the evasive footwork and headwork of a Walcott or Charles when they were at their best. He's just a light-hitting plodder, a sitting duck—and a nice plump one too—for any heavyweight with the guns to bring him down. If he were not the champion of the British Empire, and if the patriotism of fading glory did not steam up the prose of the British sportswriters, he would seem to be what he is—a willing trial horse, a dogged tub of fat.

 

Robert Christenberry, chairman of the New York State Athletic Commission, and America's "Mr. Boxing," said on Sunday that world heavyweight champion Rocky Marcianoshould fight either Britain's Don Cockell or Nino Valdes, of Cuba, for the title. Mr. Christenberry said that Marciano, who was "a great champion," should choose his next opponent. "If you take the records of Cockell and Valdes there is very little between them,"

 

We both know that under no circumstances would Machen do to Moore what Foreman did to Frazier. Yes, resumes don't win fights, but they are relevant in some cases. And in a hypothetical Moore vs Machen fight, I do think Machen losing to Johnson does tell us something about how this hypothetical matchup would turn out .

 

America's Mr Boxing was Nat Fleischer,he gave Cockell zero chance before the fight,I have the Ring magazines of the time.
Now how about you answer the three questions I asked you, and you ducked?

 

I literally never said this. I just questioned your laughable theory that someone's sole reason for picking Machen over Moore is because one lost to Liston and the other lost to Marciano. Like their's zero other reason to pick Machen.

How? They weren't exactly carbon copies of each other. Also you realize Johnson beat Moore as well?

 

Excellent points.

 

Wow the Marciano-Liston debate is really heavy rn.

Liston still KOs him inside of 4

 

Yeah but he lost to Moore about 3 or 4 times? And Machen didn't have the punching power to blast our Moore like Foreman did Frazier.

Plus, the guy I was making the comment to was poo pooing Marciano's opposition for being too small compared to modern day heavyweights, while ignoring that standard for many of Liston's best opponents, like Machen who barely cracked the 200 lbs mark. And he had said some comment like "Anyone who thinks Moore could beat Machen knows **** about boxing". I know with reasonable certainty that he only made that statement because Moore lost to Marciano and is counted as one of Marciano's best wins and Machen is counted as one of Liston's best wins.

Imagine thinking that it's some far fetched conspiracy theory to think that an ATG light heavyweight like Moore who successfully competed simultaneously as a top heavyweight contender weighing in the high 180s, low 190s could have a chance against 198 pound Machen (who himself was a pretty good HW contender)? Someone who thinks that the idea that Moore could even be competitive with Machen is silly, most likely has some nefarious reasoning for thinking that. Especially if commented under the video comment section of the Moore vs Marciano fight

 

At his best he get's past everybody that Liston got past.

Obviously Clay is going to be a big ask.

 

I think Marciano beats ALL of Liston's opponents.

Liston himself ?

That's a trickier question.