Sonny Liston vs Rocky Marciano

I’m not against Liston at all I think he is a fantastic fighter. I don’t back him against as many great fighters because he didn’t meet enough great fighters. But I back him against most. Outside of Holmes I’d back Sonny against the lost generation of the 1980s and most claimants since then.

Williams I rate up to a level. His level. I’d back him against David Bey. Marvis Frazier might beat him and that’s no disgrace either.

 

Sorry to butt in here,but how many fighters did Marciano fight when they were still great ?

 

That is fair comment,but I have to wonder if Marciano had faced the Walcott who fought Louis and a Charles with less mileage on his clock ,would the results have been the same?

Hagler faced many punchers;
Sibson
Hart
Hearns
Roldan
Obelmijas
Briscoe
Mugabi
How many punchers did Marciano face?

 

Why should Hagler be less likely to be knocked out in fantasy fights than Marciano? You seem to be scraping the barrel a whole lot more for Hagler to find punchers than you would for Marciano. They both fought punchers. Hearns is up there. Certainly. But Hart, Obelmijas. Briscoe… just solid good guys really. Mugabi wasn’t proven at middleweight was he? Being generous I think it’s equal.

You constantly want to throw out Moore as a puncher and even dismiss Walcott and Charles who we have film of knocking name contenders spark out. And in fights recent to meeting the Rock

 

Ring's 100 Top Punchers of All Time

#18. Hearns
#34. Briscoe
#38. Mugabi
#61. Hart

Scraping the bottom of the barrel a whole lot more for Hagler?????

#4. Moore (obviously based vastly more at 175 but he's a fine puncher at heavyweight)
#66. Walcott

Charles would have missed out because as Klompton said he only fought as hard as he had to most nights. He's a good heavyweight puncher.

Being generous you think it's equal per the odds of being knocked out in fantasy fights? We've never seen Hagler truly dropped from a punch nor even hurt much despite all those Ring Top 100 punchers he faced.

Without even being a size queen it's blatantly obvious facing the likes of Liston, Foreman, Tyson and Lewis in fantasy fights is a huge step up for Rocky.

 

Well,ok both Walcott and Charles were still fine fighters even at their relatively advanced ages.However
what has to be factored into this debate are the relative performances of Marciano and Liston when facing
these men.
Had the Marciano vs Walcott fight been over the modern 12 round championship distance Marciano would
have lost on points to his 38 year-old foe.Many referees would have stopped the first Ezzard Charles fight
due to the horrific damage inflicted on Marciano by Charles.
On the other hand Liston absolutely destroyed Patterson in both their fights within one round.So allowing
for the possibilty that Walcott and Charles were on the same level as Patterson ( although I'm not totally convined that
Jersey Joe and Ezzard were ,at that stage,as good as Patterson ) this really is convincing evidence that Liston
would have overwhelmed Marciano.
No disrespect to the Rock,but common sense should tell anybody he was simply no match for Liston.

 

To be frank, I think Patterson was better than the version of Charles that Marciano beat. Not sure about Marciano's Walcott. Probably Patterson was better than both.

However, how a fight would have turned out if it had ended in X rounds doesn't tell us much, since it was set for 15, and both fighters knew it.

 

Fair enough,but the fact that Walcott was comfortably leading on points against Marciano after 12 rounds
obviously points to how badly Marciano struggled against Jersey Joe.

 

I agree that Walcott was doing well against Marciano, as the cards reflected.

 

I think Patterson is an underrated champion. He’s certainly level with Charles and Walcott. Even if I believe both would do far better versus Liston than Floyd did.

 

very surprised Walcott is so much lower than Cyclone Hart. I always thought his Kayo of Charles would have put him higher than this. He flattened Harold Johnson too.

who was the best guy Hart knocked out?

 

And then you woke up!!!

 

Let's put it this way...Do you see Liston having the s**t beat out of him like Marciano did against Walcott in their title fight in 1952...having his nose split open down to the cartilage with blood pouring out...and storming back to win on a KO...without QUITTING? I sure as hell don't. He QUIT against the light hitting Cassius Clay in Miami in Feb.1964...and then took a DIVE against Ali up in Maine in May 1965. Liston would be hit more than he ever was in a fight against Marciano. Rocky would give him a reason to QUIT!!!