Foreman never hit Ali with his best shot, right?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by JohnThomas1, Jun 2, 2023.


  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Literally none of this is true.

    They do?
     
  2. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Despite this and perhaps why the fight is so fascinating is that round 3 was probably one of Foreman's best and that he was still able to rack up a 90+ punch count in round 5 - quite possibly going for broke.
     
  3. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    the 3rd is probably the best round where both do some good work, Foreman looks spent after it and, the quote the commentator (the Bob Sheridan version) states how “unusually slow” Foreman’s looking during that round. Good stats from the 5th, he must have got his 2nd wind, but still that volume of punches are clearly lacking much zip. He’s looking confused and befuddled as early as the 3rd.
     
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  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    He's got the wrong round, it was indeed earlier. You see mistakes like this made in fighters recollections all the time.
     
  5. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Confused and befuddled is a good way of putting it and, from thereon in, he was fighting on pure instinct. No method, no marshaling.

    It's just a view, but I think Foreman might have entered a state of full psychological shock during round 3.
     
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  6. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    George and flattery/hyberbole go hand-in-hand. Even when he was commentating, hardly a big fight went by when somebody didn't get hit with the hardest shot he'd ever seen or that the fight he was watching wasn't the best ever.
     
  7. JackSilver

    JackSilver Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah but I bet this was old foreman saying this, right? You just can’t take anything he says about his first career in the 60s an 70s seriously. His playing the good guy persona, you just know it’s just mostly playing to his audience. It’s like the total bs he came up with saying that when he fought Frazier, it was lucky that Frazier didn’t look down during the stare out cos he would have seen that Foreman was so scared that his knees was shaking yet every one could see that Foreman stared at Frazier like he wanted to rip his head off there an then. So I would take anything that old Foreman says about the Ali fight with a a truck full of salt
     
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I think it's fair to say he landed a couple of shots he would have thought would rock Ali to his very foundations and was shocked when they didn't. His punches had been beyond devastating in previous fights.
     
  9. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    IMHO, it proved the "styles make fights" theory is infinitely more determinative than the "transitive" theory.
     
  10. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Agreed. I think Foreman was repeatedly shocked by his best punches failing to meet with expectations, i.e. in terms of a material impact on Ali and the course of the fight

    The Ring magazine have unsurprisingly published several articles on this bout, drawing heavily from Thomas Hauser's book, 'Muhammad Ali: His Life and Times', among others.

    The following excerpt from their article, 'Rumble in the Jungle retrospective: Ali-Foreman 40 years later', contains one of several quotes on the fight which I think sums up what was happening.

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  11. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It worked.... What's the old saying about punching the bully
    in the mouth 1st?
    Ali's aggression early put Foreman in such a rage, getting
    him to pace himself after would've been a lost cause.
    Any tactics thought of prior to the fight was thrown out
    the window, overpowered with reckless anger and aggression.
    AND.............. Doubt.
    It would change the path of his 1st career. Creating self doubt
    that his trainers saw , and tried to fix but couldn't.
    He didn't get right until ten years after the Jimmy Young
    fight when he started his comeback.
    Boxing is more mental than physical. Foreman's career
    would be a prime example of that fact.
     
  12. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    To paraphrase Napolean the moral to the physical in boxing is three as to one.
     
  13. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Brilliant. Ali just wasn't going to let himself be beat that night. He refused to lose, hell he virtually refused to let Foreman's punches affect him to any great degree. He was so single minded and focused it's just crazy. He was never that good again in the 70's. People talk about Foreman's strategy, he should have done this he should have done that. The fact of the matter for me is that Foreman landed enough on Ali to beat just about anyone not named Ali, ever. His effort would have won a helluva lot of fights.
     
  14. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yes, I cannot really think of any other heavyweight who could have withstood Foreman that night.

    The more I watch the fight - whether in its entirety or, by way of a highlight here or there - the more I see a certain nonchalance in Ali, driven by the power of his will. It really is the rarest kind of self-mastery.
     
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  15. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And that will, coupled with extraordinary physicality, and skills made him
    the best heavyweight in history in my opinion.
     
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