Foreman never hit Ali with his best shot, right?

I remember watching the Ali vs Patterson I on November 22 1965, live on Closed Circuit Television.

 

The big surprise was how well Ali could take body shots. Everyone knew he had the whiskers but taking body punches from a Chuvalo is not the same as getting hit with Foreman's shots. But the clue's were there from the Norton fight--it was hard to hurt Ali to the body.

Ali took body punishment better than any other heavyweight. And he had the whiskers to take it upstairs. The other factor is the style of Ali takes away the Foreman left and right uppercuts. Back then, if you had a chance with George you cannot get hit with his uppercuts. Not a punch to land on an Ali.

What terrific condition Ali was in as well--without that, he could have lost the fight.

 

That was more of an American thing. There was a sense in the UK that Foreman was being a tad overrated and hadn’t been tested enough by a smart boxer. Even then enough top US sports writers predicted Ali would win, its just the ‘miracle’ story sells more magazines.

 

He took a lot of body shots vs Chualo during the prime years too, which proved to be good prep for the Frazier fight.

 

I often suggest that he purposely exposed his body to Chuvalo to squash the noise about him being 'soft'. I don't think I've ever seen a heavyweight take bodyshots as well as Ali seemed to - Holyfield, who's has been lauded as a comparable chin, was visibly disturbed and hurt to the body on more than one occasion.

One of Ali's biggest gifts and biggest flaws were that he could fight down or up to the perceived threat of the opponent - had him endure a lot more punishment than he should have.

 

Ali said he was out om his feet twice during the fight. So George did connect but obviously not flush.

 

It was a tremendous punching display by Ali - and it one of the rare times when, as Ali confirmed, he had absolutely no problems with his hands going in - including during training when he might’ve otherwise had to curtail his work on the heavy bag some time prior to a fight.

Atop that, the full extent of the quality of Foreman’s chin was not yet proven and or fully appreciated - as history played out, including Foreman’s comeback, during which he wasn’t even put down - Ali retained the distinction of being the only man to put George down for the full 10 count.

 

Whilst true, and despite me being a massive Ali fan, I don't think that any other fighter gets the fight called in the way it was. I dunno whether George was completely down for 10 - Ali would've finished him if it was allowed to continue but yeah, I could be wrong ...

 

Agree with that, but it’s hard to keep away from a bull for 15 rounds anyway, underrated performance from both of them, really…on the Holy thing, maybe, but Evander was fighting much bigger guys than himself, mind.

 

He looks like he gets up in time and he’d have seen the bell but probably been stopped in the next round, as he looked like he didn’t have much left. But the stoppage, as predicted by the majority of the staff at Boxing News, had much to do with George running out of gas.

 

Yep, partly bigger guys, partly the fact that despite the elixirs getting him to an impressive physique, you can't bulk up the cruiserweight natural frame. Holy always had a small waist and well, as you say, a small guy getting hit by bigger guys to a naturally smaller frame - yikes.

 

Holy didn’t take a shot quite as well as Evan Fields.

 

Fair play.

Intuitively the count did appear a bit fast. I timed it once - I got exactly 10 seconds.

If George had been deemed to have beaten the count,- and a mere count of an “actual” 11 seconds would’ve allowed for that - then that would’ve left only 2 secs until the end of the round.

As such, Foreman would’ve at least gotten the minute rest also but, just imo, Ali stills puts him away - though Ali was well fatigued himself which actually gave him cause to step it up in round 8.

It seems to me that many counts are a bit longer than a real 10 secs, so when a ref actually finished his count at a true 10 seconds, the count will seem relatively fast.

There have also been some ref’s whose own metering isn’t consistent - some appearing to either toll more slowly or more quickly at some point during the count.

I’ve been a critic of the many excuses plied for Iron Mike - but I actually give him a hearing on the long count afforded to Buster Douglas (13-14 seconds).

Boxing allows for such single shot comebacks - and it can be argued that, for all intents and purposes, Mike perhaps did achieve that.

Sometimes it depends on which fighter(s) hold more favour.

Imagine if Foreman was deemed to have beaten the count and then came out for round 9 to flatten Ali with a single Hail Mary.

I tend to think there would’ve been a huge and negative brouhaha over the count in the first instance with arguments that George should’ve been counted out in the first place in round 8.

 

The other big big factor with all of this----the wear and tear factor. Ali didn't show much of it in 1974. But he should have. a lot of it when you look hard at his opponents. The body punches alone from Chuvalo and Frazier and Norton should have shown obvious damage. Then you add George firing away.

I am very very big on the wear and tear factor in the sport. So many potentail matches and opponent choices boil down to it. And you never know how a guy is going to react to the wear and tear of the sport. It is different than other sports and everyone reacts differently. Some guys have terrific careers but once that wear and tear enters, they deteriorate rapidly.

But looking at all those Ali opponents--he should have shown tons more wear and tear. The best heavyweight I ever saw at it.

The other great accomplishment of the fight--is Ali ignoring his corner's instructions. He figured out the way to beat Foreman and instituted the plan on the fly. How many other fighters thru the years can not pay attention to Angie's instructions between rounds? And then prove him wrong and come out with the W? Only 1 guy--Muhammad Ali.