Why is Tysons competition poo pooed

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Jun 4, 2023.


  1. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,144
    26,138
    Jun 26, 2009
    My comments about Tyson have been on topic or replying to specific posts or questions.

    Are we not allowed to criticize or should a thread about why some don’t rate Tyson’s level of opposition just be a string of ‘Mike’s the greatest’ posts?

    You are the one who brought up Tyson going to prison and I mentioned why (didn’t dwell on it, just said it wasn’t Holyfield’s fault Tyson raped someone, which caused a postponement) and you immediately turned it into ‘see you hate Tyson.’

    Why? Because you’re a Tyson apologist who admits he only came here to escape other places where people dared criticize Tyson. You’re the one who is blinded here.

    These things go in cycles with all fighters. There’s a generation to whom Tyson is the be-all, end-all of boxing. And those people put him on a pedestal. There are others who criticize him and point out that maybe his resume ain’t quite as spiffy as his fanbois make it out to be. That’s all fair. You see people pumping up Marciano for a while and then people criticizing him and tearing down his record. That’s how it goes. You may as well get used to it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2023
  2. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    29,152
    35,555
    Jan 8, 2017
    I know, I know.. But what can one really do about it??
     
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta likes this.
  3. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Who is ready to suffer for Christ (the truth)? Full Member

    7,226
    7,692
    Nov 3, 2021
    It's hard to say how Mike Tyson's competition could be tougher in 1987-89:
     
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,674
    7,649
    Dec 31, 2009
    They definitely were not bums. However, Tyson was the champ everyone wanted.TV wanted him. Governing bodies wanted him. Promoters. Fans. He was so Busy. So much so that a lot of good fighters were sat around going stale waiting their turn while the champion was kept fresh.

    Some of his challengers were threats to the title. Biggs. Bonecrusher. Tucker. Bruno. And Tyson took care of them.

    Not Tysons fault but some of the “legacy fights” though were against guys that lacked desire and hope. Tubbs. Spinks. Holmes.
     
  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,586
    43,915
    Apr 27, 2005
    Fair post.
     
    Sangria likes this.
  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,586
    43,915
    Apr 27, 2005
    Tate was very highly rated with solid expectations until he was one punched by Weaver. He was no longer champ when Berbick beat him, of course. There were still hopes he might bounce back but the underrated Berbick put paid to that.
     
    Sangria likes this.
  7. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

    9,016
    3,815
    Nov 13, 2010
    You mean losing a 3 fight series to Bowe, splitting with Moorer, losing to Lennox twice, Mercer lost to 42 year old Holmes and 35 year old Jesse Ferguson twice, losing a 3 fight series with John Ruiz, losing to Chris Byrd, losing to blown up James Toney, losing to Larry Donald, etc.

    Evan Fields, father of 20 kids out of wedlock. What great character he had!!
     
  8. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

    9,016
    3,815
    Nov 13, 2010
    Too many falsities with this post to even care. You're hilarious dude, you really are.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2023
  9. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,144
    26,138
    Jun 26, 2009
    Haha, better than being KTFO by Kevin McBride and Danny Williams.

    You’re making my case that Evander fought a better slate of heavyweights than Tyson did, even though a significant portion of Holyfield’s career was at cruiserweight.
     
  10. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,127
    8,433
    Jan 13, 2022
    It's hard to rate Rocky. I'm one of these guys who doesn't discount cultural importance when judging an athlete. After all these men and women are entertainers. They are competing for a paycheck and that paycheck is a function of how many eyes on them when they compete. Based on that Rocky earns a place in the top ten. He was a cultural icon as is Mike.
     
  11. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,144
    26,138
    Jun 26, 2009
    Of course that’s something someone can use as a criteria for choosing a top 10 greatest P4P or in a division, but it wouldn’t figure into H2H if you were ranking them that way.

    And this thread is asking why some people scrutinize and/or criticize Tyson’s level of opposition. Which is, of course, a different matter entirely.
     
  12. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

    10,458
    17,935
    Jan 6, 2017
    I give Tyson lots of credit for fighting Ruddock. That was a very dangerous fight against a hungry, confident prime slugger.
     
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  13. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

    10,458
    17,935
    Jan 6, 2017
    I said Tyson:

    -Had a good resume, with some very good wins.
    -Gave him credit for beating the dangerous Ruddock when some people were avoiding him.
    -In multiple threads I have rated him in the top 10 for both h2h and resume.
    -Defended him regarding the r*pe accusation saying he seems innocent.

    But by all means, continue to lie claiming I "hate" Tyson somehow. I find it funny how you won't put me on ignore, you won't reply to me, but you'll continue to read my posts and put my name in your mouth. Pretty cowardly behavior from a fan of a very brave fighter.
     
  14. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

    9,016
    3,815
    Nov 13, 2010
    Mmmmm...no. Not really. You see Holyfield lost a lot more though.

    I did a composite comparing heavyweights and their opponent's win/loss record. As you can see Tyson is 2nd only to Ali. I'm not saying this is the definitive way to ranking heavyweights so don't get it twisted like you're with other replies because I know exactly what you're doing!!

    1) Ali 56-5-0 (37ko's)
    Opp W/L/D-1975-319-72
    Opp Winning %-83.5
    Winning %-91.8
    Overall Ranking: 87.7

    This content is protected
    50-6-0 (44ko's)
    Opp W/L/D-1334-213-17
    Opp Winning %-85.3
    Winning %-89.3
    Overall Ranking: 87.3

    T3) Lewis 41-2-1 (32ko's)
    Opp W/L/D-1124-240-23
    Opp Winning %-81.0
    Winning %-93.3
    Overall Ranking: 87.2

    T3) V. Klitschko 45-2-0 (41kos)
    Opp W/L/D-1139-248-27
    Opp Winning %-80.2
    Winning %-95.2
    Overall Rating: 87.2

    5) W. Klitschko 64-5-0 (53kos)
    Opp W/L/D-1655-364-47
    Opp Winning %- 80.0
    Winning %- 92.7
    Overall Rating: 86.4

    6) Marciano 49-0-0 (43ko's)
    Opp W/L/D-1502-515-88
    Opp Winning %-71.4
    Winning %-100
    Overall Ranking: 85.7

    7) Louis 66-3-0 (52ko's)
    Opp W/L/D-2749-711-185
    Opp Winning %-75.3
    Winning %-95.7
    Overall Ranking: 85.5

    8) Holmes 69-6-0 (44ko's)
    Opp W/L/D-1482-384-50
    Opp Winning %-77.3
    Winning %-92.0
    Overall Ranking: 84.7

    9) Frazier 32-4-1 (27ko's)
    Opp W/L/D-942-196-36
    Opp Winning %-80.2
    Winning %-86.5
    Overall Ranking: 83.4

    10) Foreman 76-5-0 (68ko's)
    Opp W/L/D-1727-609-96
    Opp Winning %-71.0
    Winning %-93.8
    Overall Ranking: 82.4

    11) Liston 50-4 (39ko's)
    Opp W/L/D-1178-447-100
    Opp Winning %-68.3
    Winning %-92.6
    Overall Ranking: 82.3

    This content is protected
    26-10-2 (17ko's)
    Opp W/L/D-1445*-119-22
    (Only counts Heavyweight fights)
    Opp Winning %-91.9
    Winning %-68.4
    Overall Ranking: 80.2

    13) Dempsey 61-6-9 (50ko's)
    Opp W/L/D-1554*-486-444
    (6 fights with no info)
    Opp Winning %-62.6
    Winning %-80.3
    Overall Ranking: 71.5

    14) Johnson 84-13-14 (45kos)
    Opp W/L/D-1653*-537-322
    ( does not include all bouts with no info or his 17 newspaper fights)
    Opp Winning %-65.8
    Winning %-75.7
    Overall Ranking: 70.8
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2023
    Greg Price99 likes this.
  15. Storm-Chaser

    Storm-Chaser Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,852
    1,573
    Sep 5, 2022
    No, I don't think you understand. Let me reset your expectations. I don't rank/count boxers who consume more steroids and PEDs than Lance Armstrong. And I also don't count fighters who intentionally headbutt their competition and used their forehead as a wrecking ball on a near constant match basis.