Rocky Marciano's so called punching power

HMMM.

 

Marciano haters are only surpassed in their idiocy by Ali haters. There was a clown on this board who said Ali isn't top ten and Joe Louis would walk through him like he was a punk. I know what literally means and I would literally bet a digit there aren't ten boxers who could have whupped 1964-1975 Ali. Rocky like Muhammad was iconic. I would add you can only beat the man in front of you and they both did that when they still could.

 

How many rounds did Whitehurst win in his first fight with Liston?
This is the scorecard of their second fight.
50-37,48-39,50-40.

Liston knocked Whitehurst out of the ring in the last round of this fight,he was in the process of trying to get back in at the count of seven when the final bell rang to save him from a ko.
If Marciano hit so hard why couldn't he stop Cockell earlier ,a man who had already been stopped several times by journeymen lhvs and a middleweight?
If Marciano hit so hard why couldn't he stop Willis Applegate or even floor him?
Applegate was 11-14-2, had lost his previous 5 fights,and won just 1 of his last 12!
If Marciano hit so hard why did 13-15-1 Art Henri,ko' d 4 times before go into the 9th only to lose on a tko?
If Marciano hit so hard, how come 177lbs and 180lbs Ted Lowry went the distance with him twice and had him in trouble in their first fight? Lowry was a journeyman who lost almost as many as he won.

Liston's best wins?
Valdes 211lbs ko3
Machen 196lbs U Dec
Folley 198 1/2lbs ko3
DeJohn 202lbs ko6
Williams 210 1/2lbs ko3
Williams 212 1/2lbs ko2
Harris 195lbs ko1
Clark 215lbs ko7
Lincoln 209 1/2lbs ko 2
Johnson 202 1/2lbs ko
Rush 214lbs ko6
Zech 227lbs ko7
Patterson189 lbs ko1
Patterson 194 lbs KO1
Half a dozen of those wins were when Liston was past prime ,at an age when Rocky was retired, gorging himself on pasta.

 

I have said he is a candidate for the hardest puncher under 190lbs.
Marciano wasn't accurate enough with his punches, he relied on non stop grinding aggression .For the life of me I cannot understand why this is not obvious to anyone who has watched his fights!

 

I take issue with so-called Rocky Marciano's so-called punching power.

I am not convinced that there was a Rocky Marciano to begin with.

 

It makes you wonder.I've had posters.who when you point out his size disparity to modern heavies say,"but if he were fighting today he would be 225lbs".That would do wonders for his stamina!
I wonder if he would be 6 inches taller too?

 

All of the guys back then would be bigger today, and I have no idea how they'd perform. Probably nobody does.

My thought is: Why add an extra layer of unknowns onto already tricky hypothetical fights?

 

If Marciano fought HW he would be heavier as the technology is there where it wasn’t in his day. You must admit the option would b there. He also wouldn’t have to have as much stamina fighting fewer rounds.
Ur argument is off in this thread as ur asking how come Marciano took so long to Ko so and so. What does that even mean? Toney knocked out Holyfield I guess he hit harder than Lewis and Tyson by that argument. Styles sometimes make fights and the biggest knock on Marciano was always his sloppiness and inaccuracy. Which is probably the reason why he took “longer” to Ko certain opponents. Only one opponent had the gall to say he didn’t hit that hard and he was knocked out in there next fight in 8. Walcott said he hit harder than Louis. Are we to question Louis power now?

 

My point is that if Tyson, Wilder, AJ, Marciano fails to stop a 190 pound fighter in 1 round, it would be a black mark against his punching power. I submit to you that Tyson would have quickly stopped Whitehurst, but you'll say Liston hit harder than Tyson.

Marciano could have fought Valdez, but Valdez lost to Moore. If a Marciano/Valdez fight came off, I suspect that Marciano would have beaten Valdez. But had he beaten Valdez, Marciano detractors would say that since he didn't have Bowe-like power and skills, then he sucked, so a win over Valdez doesn't really count. Basically, Marciano detractors would fall back on the "all the big men back then were clumsy, unskilled oafs" excuse. That's the excuse given for every other big man that Rocky beat. Even if Valdez was top 1 or 2 contender, the Marciano detractors will just say the division sucked.

From what I understand, the big men that Liston fought in the 2nd half, post championship portion of his career weren't top guys but fringe contenders. At least for the most part. His best wins were pre championship during the 1st half of his career. People talk about day before weigh ins and how Rocky could be a light heavyweight, but even Cleveland Williams could be a cruiserweight with day before weigh ins. Guys like Folley, Machen, Dejohn, Harris would be small cruisers who might also be able to make light heavyweight with day before weigh ins.

And this isn't a knock on Liston, he beat the best of who was around at the time and all the men he beat were heavyweights. Everyone in the world considered them heavyweights. It's not Liston's fault there wasn't any 6'5 235 pound Riddick Bowes around for him to fight or even a 6'4 230 pound Frank Bruno for him to test himself against. But the same can be said for Rocky. He beat REAL heavyweights. It's not his fault there were no Bowes or Bruno's for him to test himself against.

 

Rocky certainly hit harder than Ali. Now, he wasn't as accurate or as quick handed as Ali, but if you think Ali would hit hard enough modern day heavyweights, then you have to agree that Rocky would be able to hurt modern day heavyweights. Unless you want to argue that Ali hit harder than Rocky.

 

I think it is absolutely hilarious that ANYONE, who has ever seen him fight on film, has even casually looked at his boxing record, or read what his contemporaries had to say about him, could possibly think that Rocky Marciano did not have punching power. HILARIOUS!

 

Good points!
Although Bruno was never even listed above 6'3", yet was a chiseled 247 ;bs. against Tyson, all muscle.

 

Count me among the ones that disagree, of which there will be plenty.

 

I match fighters as they actually were, not some , hypothetical ,hybrid chimera.

 

No actually its not, I'm merely using MDWC's own illogical tactics.
eg Liston had trouble with Whitehurst and Machen,in fact he convincingly beat them ,they just lasted the distance,
Marciano had trouble with lots of puddings like Applegate,Lowry,and average contenders like Lastarza.
Walcott said he hit harder than Louis,Walcott was 38. half way out the door of retirement . As Louis stated after the Marciano fight," Schmeling hit me with loads of punches ,this kid knocked me out with what just one or two,but I was younger then,you can take more when you're younger."
Neither Louis,Moore,Lastarza,Cockell,or Charles said Marciano hit them the hardest.
NB Marciano would not be fighting a 37 years old Louis , a 38 years old Walcott,a 33 years old Charles with a ton of mileage on his clock,nor a 39/41 years old Moore.
Fighting much bigger,prime ,modern heavies,
I wouldn't be so sure he would not need so much stamina!