Found this article on Lem Franklin

I argued a few years ago that Lem was highly deserving of a title shot. Yes In hindsight he lost to Pastor who had previously lost to Louis twice but I don’t think Franklin should have needed to fight Bob to get that chance. He had just about the best win streak going in the division at that point.

 

Because he was supposed to sign to fight Louis after he beat Pastor but Pastor knocked him out. Then a month later he was knocked out again in one round and three months after that he was knocked out again in one round. He only won two more fights after losing to Pastor and those wins came against nobodies. Franklin only had a very brief claim to being considered a contender for Louis and blew the chance when it came his way. If you search this forum you can find this subject rehashed and explained numerous times to the handful of people who have this weird idea that Louis should have fought Franklin or ducked him.

 

If I understood it correctly from what others have said ( and I may be wrong ) Louis planned to fight the winner of Franklin vs Pastor. Why didn’t he fight him before and regardless ? Not sure. It’s strange to me how Abe Simon who lost to Franklin twice got two shots at Louis and Franklin never even got one. Could be popularity and the issue of potentially low interest. Franklin was a member of the murderers row and those guys didn’t get much coverage back then. Hell I’ve searched all over hell for stuff on Elmer Ray and hardly found anything

 

Again, this has all been explained and reexplained. A quick search will enlighten you.

 

Yes and I’ve partaken in many of those old threads. What do I need enlightening on ?

 

You seem to have a difficult time with the concept that Franklin was only rated anywhere near the top for a couple of months and dropped down in those ratings before Louis signed to face Simon and that when Louis defended against Simon he was doing so for free for charity so its not unreasonable that he picked a guy who gave him a surprising good effort the first time around. When Franklin beat Simon in their second fight he broke his hand which left him out of action for three months. Louis had just defended against his top two contenders so its not like he was ducking anyone. He could fight who he wanted. Franklin came back with two tuneups and then had the fight set with Pastor as an elimination. Why is it a big deal that he actually had to earn a title shot? Thats the way it worked and its not like Pastor was some insurmountable mountain to cross. Its not Franklin had been knocking over contender after contender. His record is pretty thin. People act like he was this threat because he had Curtis Sheppard and Jimmy Bivins name on his record in 1941 but Bivins had literally just moved up from MW to LHW a couple of months before Franklin, a HW, beat him. That win was meaningless in the HW landscape. Sheppard likewise was a nobody. He was a small HW with a 13-8-0-1 record. Meanwhile, while Franklin was still nursing a broken hand Louis defended against Buddy Baer for charity, who was rated #3, just behind Franklin. Franklin, as has been stated, would have gotten his shot had he been able to do whats expected of a contender: win. He couldnt do that. In fact he failed miserably. He didnt just have a setback against Pastor, his entire career went downhill. The was literally ranked no higher than #2 for a couple of months and somehow thats been conflated into "he should have gotten a title shot" or "he was avoided" LOL. Hell, Pastor has a better argument for getting a title shot than Franklin and he had also lost to Louis by then, twice!

 

Your whole argument is derailed by the fact that Louis was giving title fights to men who Franklin was Also beating. Perfect example was Simon who got knocked out by Franklin then landed in the ring two months later. And you’re right !! A contenders job IS to win. From February of 1940 to February of 1942 he put together a record of 19-0-0-15 and beat Abe Simon, Tony Musto, Eddie Blunt, Willie Redish Jimmy Bivins and a 19-0 prospect. Do you think guys like Musto, Roper, paycheck, etc were long time ranked contenders ? Even AFTER losing to pastor Franklin STILL would have been better than some of the guys who got shots. The eventuality of him going on a losing streak after the fact is irrelevant. Hell losing your last fight or even last couple of fights didn’t often disbar a man for getting a shot at Louis. I mean really how many common opponents of Louis did Franklin have to beat ? The pastor fight shouldn’t even have needed to happen. And I’m not saying that Joe ducked him. There may have been other reasons for that fight not happening. Maybe Franklin wasn’t a popular draw. Or maybe Louis’s people didn’t like him as an opponent for Joe. Maybe there wasn’t much money involved or maybe Franklin’s managers were idiots. I wouldn’t think that a great champion like Joe Louis ( who I have tied with Muhammad Ali for #1 ) would duck a contender but you seem to be getting defensive about it rather than just admitting that the guy was a better a contender than many who actually fought for the crown at the time.

 

Your argument seems to be that if Louis was going to pick a guy who didnt deserve a title shot then he should have picked Franklin. Why? Franklin knocked out Simon when Simon was suffering from appendicitis and had an appendectomy the following day. Simon did something Franklin hadnt done, he went 13 rounds with Louis. And if Louis had previously defended against 2 #1 contenders and a #3 contender within a year of fighting Simon and was on the verge of signing to fight Franklin when Franklin got knocked out dont pretend that Franklin was ducked or deserved a title shot more than anyone else. He didnt. Given that Louis had gone through such highly rated contenders in short order and with such frequency youd have to really reach to say the guy didnt deserve to pick his opponent for a fight he wasnt even getting paid for. If you truly believe Franklin was that much more dangerous than Simon then surely you can agree Louis deserved to get paid for facing a threat. If he wasnt then you have no argument whatsoever. And again, its all academic because Franklins brief stay no higher than #2 illustrated that he was s flash in the pan with no staying power. The guy was getting knocked out with alarming regularity for a guy you seem to think deserved a shot at the most feared puncher of the era. Your insistence that Bivins, just a couple months removed from being an unknown MW, was somehow proof that Franklin deserved a shot at the HW crown shows how far you have to reach to make Franklin look like a viable contender for anything more than a few months while Louis was going into the army.

 

1. Did boxing take into consideration that Abe Simon had appendicitis when Franklin beat him as a reason for valuing him as a lesser contender ?
2. You seem to be defensive about the idea that Joe Louis ducked Franklin and no one is saying that he did. I’ve explained that.
3. Yes… Simon got a rematch with Louis presumably because he gave him a tough fight the first time and the rematch was for charitable reasons. What you DON’T acknowledge is that the First shot Simon got against Louis was following a loss to a journeyman named Jim Thompson. Doesn’t seem to stop you from saying that first shot was justified OR that Lem’s loss to Pastor was good reason for not fighting him
4. Yes, two of the top contenders you speak of Were Buddy Baer and Lou Nova. Did you know that Baer lost to Eddie blunt just 4 months before fighting Louis and Blunt had lost to Franklin just two months prior to that ? Not only did this not prevent Baer from getting a shot at Louis, it actually got him TWO !! See how this whole “ well he lost to that guy therefore he wasn’t a worthy contender “ shlt doesn’t work ?

5. Franklin’s losing streak in HINDSIGHT is irrelevant to what he was doing at the time as it pertains to his 19 fight win streak over quality opposition. Few If any of Louis’s title challengers were coming off that kind of a streak and some were outright coming off losses to lesser men - the same argument you’re trying to make for Franklin’s loss to a TOP CONTENDER. Greg page lost a lot of fights after being denied a fight with Holmes… does this eventual losing streak get Holmes off the hook ?

 

And again, your argument seems to be that Franklin was the best of those not deserving a title shot. Which means it isnt much of an argument. Sometimes the stars dont align, particularly for a guy who was a flash in the pan.

 

I can accept your response that “ sometimes the stars don’t align” rather than the assertion that Franklin didn’t deserve a shot or you accusing me of saying Louis ducked him

 

But Franklin didnt "deserve" a title shot. The only people who can claim they "deserve" a title shot are people who become #1 contenders. Franklin never did that. The closest he got was #2 and he was only there for about three months. Thats hardly a case for DESERVING a title shot.