If Greb footage is found and it is mediocre how would it change your view of his opposition??

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Blofeld, Jun 7, 2023.


  1. Blofeld

    Blofeld Active Member Full Member

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    A shout out to @cross_trainer re Harry Greb film whose thread got me thinking.

    If film was found of Greb, say the amount of footage we have of Stanley Ketchel and Greb looked terrible it got me thinking about how it may change people's opinions about not just Greb but also his opposition. If you think about it mediocre footage would totally up end many of our assumptions and also be rather confusing historically. Would it mean that the big names be beat we also not that good? Would it mean that despite looking amateurish he just happened to have a style that could beat great fighters? Of course some of his opponents look good on film but as he is seen as pretty much the greatest of the old timers it would also throw into doubt the general level of boxing skills before the modern era. How would it change your view point?

    Btw I am not really talking about the sparring footage that exists which i feel is inconclusive. But if we had some significant rounds filmed and he did not look anything special.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Bob N Weave Full Member

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    Stolen thoughts, but it would force me to consider how little I must know. Look at his record, he's in the right I couldn't possibly be.
     
  3. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    We have tons of footage of his opponents. Cant we judge them accurately now?
     
  4. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    We have footage of the guys he fought and some of them look good even by modern standards. For instance Tunney looks like a modern boxer plying his trade from behind a great jab. If Greb looked awful and it was one film I'd assume that maybe he'd had an off day. If he looked shyte across 3-4 films then I'd have a puzzler on my hands.
     
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  5. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    This kind of question is only asked by disgruntled Tyson fans, who don't want to admit that Greb dominates their hero and knocks him silly.*


    * Assuming Greb existed.
     
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  6. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    Finding footage of Greb would be horrible. The peanut gallery would be shrieking that he "failed the eye test" and saying stupid stuff about how he would lose to K-9 and Johnny B.
    Never mind that, in general, the average boxing fan has little to no understanding of what he is seeing. Never mind that what matters is the effectiveness of what you do, not that it conforms to what someone thinks it should look like. Especially when that someone couldn't do it themselves, or doesn't understand what is being done.
    If the video had commentary by Howard Cossell saying "Greb is the greatest" every few seconds then, over time, it would become accepted fact, no matter what the video showed.
    Something I don't understand...when people say that a fighter looks like a modern fighter. Is that meant to be a positive thing? In my opinion the boxers of today, for the most part, are not impressive at all. The decline started in the early 90s and the decline built momentum and became a free fall.
     
  7. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    No, his competition just looks that good on film.

    Greb probably won't pass the eye test to most casuals, since they don't know anything about his style. Chances are he won't look very technical if film is found due to his insanely weird style (which the casuals will call outdated, since they've never seen footage of Greb's opposition)

    I've literally seen people call Willie Pep primitive. No, I'm not kidding. You just can't please everyone
     
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  8. Blofeld

    Blofeld Active Member Full Member

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    :D I have no ulterior motive I swear!
     
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  9. Blofeld

    Blofeld Active Member Full Member

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    Or it could be revelatory? But you do make good points!
     
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  10. Blofeld

    Blofeld Active Member Full Member

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    God really? Pep looks like he would run rings round just about anyone.
     
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  11. Blofeld

    Blofeld Active Member Full Member

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    Interestingly I was watching some Sam Langford footage today and he does the same strange exercises/shadow boxing as Greb does in his footage that many people mock. Yet Sam looks brilliant in his fight footage, at least to me. Perhaps that odd style of training was just the way they did it back then?
     
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  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    A likely story!

    Next you'll be telling me that you're not working with the Lewisites, who refuse to admit that the Once And Future Greb would beat Lennox. Jealous *******s. :mad:
     
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  13. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I think it's because that how they exercised with pulleys.

    I have nothing to back this up except that it's identical to how it looks on film when they're using pulleys.
     
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  14. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Casual fans generally can’t comprehend what they are watching. They generally go with what their told and stuck to their narratives and biases. So, I don’t think it would change much. Casual fans will ridicule him, those who understand context will continue to marvel over his resume and understand there’s a lot of footage of his victims.
     
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  15. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If they had fought c.100 years ago and the only footage we had of Calzaghe and Kessler were their respective stoppages of Peter Manfredo and Allan Green, people would say Calzaghe was too primitive to be successful in the modern era, whilst Kessler passes the eye test.

    We shouldn't conflate aesthetically pleasing styles with effectiveness.

    Amazing hand speed, absurd stamina/work rate, high ring IQ and excellent footwork can take a fighter far, even when allied with wild or sloppy punching technique.
     
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