Rocky Marciano's so called punching power

Still got that flea up your arse ? What exactly is your problem?

 

I don’t necessarily believe he saw it quite like that. Top ten of what? There is no longer a HW division as it was for most of last century.

Like most of us here on this forum Steward very much rated everyone behind Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali.

He was also very much of the school of thought that saw Superheavyweights as a new division. The start of something incomparably new.

He rated Marciano as an inspiration. One of the better champions. but like all heavyweights of last century very much of their “own time” and own division. Great but unfair to compare.

 

Bottom line he did not include him in his top ten.
Neither did he put Johnson in, whom I would.

 

Emanuel's ranking is nothing more than his own opinion, a bit racially biased. He even put Wlad in his top 10. But he really said only good words for Rocky, just he doesn't see him as a modern heavyweight, which is fair, but if we put him LH or cruiser, he'll be a legend - it isn't so easy to understand his opinion if you don't have "fleas" in your brain, but apparently, some do have.

It's a bit schizophrenic to accept his view on one fighter, but not for another, yet take his top 10 as the most objective ever. That is what happens when you get cornered by facts and your own lack of intelligence and dignity.

 

yes he’s looking at a different criteria though. He’s looking at it as “they don’t exist anymore” so outside of Ali and Louis, he’s not going to include what doesn’t exist anymore.

By the way I also also would include Johnson.

 

racially biased?,,,,,,,,,,,,,oh for the love of,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

How about not forgetting "a bit"? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Let us be clear here.
You are saying Steward's rankings were racially biased,
in the same post that you are saying,I lack intelligence and dignity?
Here is an example of your "intelligence".
"Several of his teeth along with the gumline flew outside of the ring. It is a well-known fact."
Show us any report in which mentions Layne's teeth flying outside the ring?
DELAYED KNOCKOUT! Rocky Marciano vs. Rex Layne (12.07.1951) - Best Quality & Colorized! - YouTube
Please point out ,"the teeth and gumline flying out of the ring?"
Here is Robinson knocking Graziano's mouthpeice out of the ring,you will see it and hear the commentator point it out.
Sugar Ray Robinson vs Rocky Graziano in FULL COLOR - (16.04.1952) - YouTube

Here is another.
"no other puncher ever damaged his opponents the way Rocky did. And they were all around 15-25 kg heavier."
Several unhappily left opponents in a severely impaired state
eg Benn v McClellan. Eubanks v Watson

Several boxers killed men in the ring.
eg Baer v Campbell.Griffith v Paret.
Six of Marciano's opponents were under 180lbs.

 

The problem with your argument is that Valdez didn't become the Number 1 contender in Aug. 1953. Beating Charles resulted in Valdez becoming the fourth ranked heavyweight contender and Charles dropped from Logical Contender to the Number 2 contender, so Marciano was under no obligation to defend against Valdez in 1953 or most of 1954.

Here are the Summer Rankings in late August 1953. It also makes mention of how Valdez went from being unranked to being 4th ranked after his win over Charles.

The Latest Ring Magazine ratings have been published. Rex Layne is not among the first 10 for the first time in years.

Ring lists them as follows in the heavyweight bracket: Rocky Marciano, Champion
1-Roland LaStarza. 2- Ezzard Charles. 3-Dan Bucceroni. 4-Nino Valdez. 5-Tommy Hurricane Jackson. 6-Bob Satterfield. 7-Heinz Neuhaus. 8-Don Cockell. 9-Earl Wall. 10-Harry Matthews.

Also out of the first 10 this month are Karel Sys of Belgium, and Bob Baker of Pittsburgh.

The guy who gained the most ground this month was Nino Valdez who hopped from nowhere to fourth place.

Layne has fought six of the top 11 men-has been beaten by five of them. Bob Satterfield is the only man who hasn't whipped Rex. Those who have are Marciano, LaStarza, Charles (two for Charles and one for Layne). Walls and Matthews.

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Also, Valdez wasn't the Logical contender until the fall of 1954. Even in the summer of 1954 Valdez was the second ranked heavyweight.

Here is a piece covering his upcoming fight with Tommy Jackson and it mentions Valdez is ranked second while Jackson is ranked fifth.

Hurricane Tommy Jackson and Nino Valdez, two ranking contenders for Rocky Marciano's heavyweight title, meet Wednesday night at Madison Square Garden in the outstanding bout on a busy program.

Valdez, the giant Cuban is recognized as the No. 2 challenger for the crown behind Ezzard Charles, the ex-champion. Jackson is No. 5 in the latest ring ratings with a chance to move up if he can win this important 10-round test. Although the Hurricane is ranked below the Cuban, he has been made a 2 to 1 favorite.

The Hurricane bounced back from his defeat by Jimmy Slade to stop Charley Norkus in a Garden main event, April 26. Valdez has an eight-fight winning streak with 1954 victories over Archie McBride, James J. Parker and Karel Sys.

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In hindsight Valdez should've waited until after the Marciano-C**kell fight to get his titleshot instead of jumping the gun and fighting Moore, since Valdez had little to gain and everything to lose by fighting Moore, but took the bait and lost. Valdez and Gleason jumping the gun and losing can't be blamed on Marciano and Weill.

Here is a piece with Archie giving his opinion on Valdez becoming the Logical Contender.

Here's a long telegram from light heavyweight champion Archie Moore, who apparently blew his top the other day in Toledo, Ohio - and for some reason we'll never know spent at least $2.50 to complaint to this department.

Maybe, on second thought, it's because Moore is appearing on Gus Cozza's fight care here December 10.

Anyway-

"I ask you-how ridiculous can the heavyweight boxing situation get? On November 16 in London the heavy rankings were determined as follows:

"Nino Valdez, logical contender. Don Cockell, Empire Champion, second, with Bob Baker, third.

"Now I whipped Valdez with ease, Jimmy Slade knocked out C**kell-after which I whipped Slade, winning nine out of 10 round, And I knocked out Baker, too.

"Furthermore, I have agreed to fight C**kell, Valdez, and Marciano all within a period of 60 days - to which I now add, they can throw Baker in with them for good measure. I ask you can anything be fairer?

"I can whip that Marciano too."

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Never mind Nino, If anything there is a stronger case there was a conspiracy to keep Archie Moore unranked at heavyweight! Nobody did more to get a HW title shot.

 

Ray Robinson knocked Graziano's gumshield out of the ring and he was 72kgs.

 

This is true, but needs to be read alongside the fact that Valdes did bag the Ring #1 spot by knocking out 5th ranked Heinz Neuhaus in November '53, and was still ranked #1 when Marciano signed to fight Ezzard Charles in February '54.

Charles, of course, was due a shot. He'd been ranked #1 by the Ring, and logical contender by the NBA, when he was passed over in favour of Roland LaStarza in 1953. Even after his losses to Valdes and Johnson, the Marciano camp were still making encouraging statements that he would be next in line as long as he could win his planned rematch with Johnson (which ultimately never happened).

 

If I may butt in.Emanuel Steward is generally recognised as one of the two or three
greatest trainers in boxing history.Emanuel's ranking may indeed be nothing more than his
own opinion but doesn't that apply than to all our opinions ? A bit of a redundant comment.
Also Steward's opinion has to carry an awful lot of weight given his status as a ATG coach.
Why on earth say Steward's opinion on the ranking of the ATG heavyweights was ''racially biased '' ?
There is absolutely no evidence to back this up.

 

Like I denied his status as a trainer? Ain't that redundant to mention it? Just see the interview and the fighters he lists as his top...

Knocking someone's gumshield out of his mouth happens, but doing it with teeth inside it is rare, you d**сhе mcvey. You are so sour for the BS you spilt on this topic, you can't stop now but dig even deeper - as I said: dignity. As for the intelligence you are exposed already.

 

Thanks for posting this.