Rocky Marciano's so called punching power

Let us be clear here.
You are saying Steward's rankings were racially biased,
in the same post that you are saying,I lack intelligence and dignity?
Here is an example of your "intelligence".
"Several of his teeth along with the gumline flew outside of the ring. It is a well-known fact."
Show us any report in which mentions Layne's teeth flying outside the ring?
DELAYED KNOCKOUT! Rocky Marciano vs. Rex Layne (12.07.1951) - Best Quality & Colorized! - YouTube
Please point out ,"the teeth and gumline flying out of the ring?"
Here is Robinson knocking Graziano's mouthpeice out of the ring,you will see it and hear the commentator point it out.
Sugar Ray Robinson vs Rocky Graziano in FULL COLOR - (16.04.1952) - YouTube

Here is another.
"no other puncher ever damaged his opponents the way Rocky did. And they were all around 15-25 kg heavier."
Several unhappily left opponents in a severely impaired state
eg Benn v McClellan. Eubanks v Watson

Several boxers killed men in the ring.
eg Baer v Campbell.Griffith v Paret.
Six of Marciano's opponents were under 180lbs.

 

The problem with your argument is that Valdez didn't become the Number 1 contender in Aug. 1953. Beating Charles resulted in Valdez becoming the fourth ranked heavyweight contender and Charles dropped from Logical Contender to the Number 2 contender, so Marciano was under no obligation to defend against Valdez in 1953 or most of 1954.

Here are the Summer Rankings in late August 1953. It also makes mention of how Valdez went from being unranked to being 4th ranked after his win over Charles.

The Latest Ring Magazine ratings have been published. Rex Layne is not among the first 10 for the first time in years.

Ring lists them as follows in the heavyweight bracket: Rocky Marciano, Champion
1-Roland LaStarza. 2- Ezzard Charles. 3-Dan Bucceroni. 4-Nino Valdez. 5-Tommy Hurricane Jackson. 6-Bob Satterfield. 7-Heinz Neuhaus. 8-Don Cockell. 9-Earl Wall. 10-Harry Matthews.

Also out of the first 10 this month are Karel Sys of Belgium, and Bob Baker of Pittsburgh.

The guy who gained the most ground this month was Nino Valdez who hopped from nowhere to fourth place.

Layne has fought six of the top 11 men-has been beaten by five of them. Bob Satterfield is the only man who hasn't whipped Rex. Those who have are Marciano, LaStarza, Charles (two for Charles and one for Layne). Walls and Matthews.

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Also, Valdez wasn't the Logical contender until the fall of 1954. Even in the summer of 1954 Valdez was the second ranked heavyweight.

Here is a piece covering his upcoming fight with Tommy Jackson and it mentions Valdez is ranked second while Jackson is ranked fifth.

Hurricane Tommy Jackson and Nino Valdez, two ranking contenders for Rocky Marciano's heavyweight title, meet Wednesday night at Madison Square Garden in the outstanding bout on a busy program.

Valdez, the giant Cuban is recognized as the No. 2 challenger for the crown behind Ezzard Charles, the ex-champion. Jackson is No. 5 in the latest ring ratings with a chance to move up if he can win this important 10-round test. Although the Hurricane is ranked below the Cuban, he has been made a 2 to 1 favorite.

The Hurricane bounced back from his defeat by Jimmy Slade to stop Charley Norkus in a Garden main event, April 26. Valdez has an eight-fight winning streak with 1954 victories over Archie McBride, James J. Parker and Karel Sys.

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In hindsight Valdez should've waited until after the Marciano-C**kell fight to get his titleshot instead of jumping the gun and fighting Moore, since Valdez had little to gain and everything to lose by fighting Moore, but took the bait and lost. Valdez and Gleason jumping the gun and losing can't be blamed on Marciano and Weill.

Here is a piece with Archie giving his opinion on Valdez becoming the Logical Contender.

Here's a long telegram from light heavyweight champion Archie Moore, who apparently blew his top the other day in Toledo, Ohio - and for some reason we'll never know spent at least $2.50 to complaint to this department.

Maybe, on second thought, it's because Moore is appearing on Gus Cozza's fight care here December 10.

Anyway-

"I ask you-how ridiculous can the heavyweight boxing situation get? On November 16 in London the heavy rankings were determined as follows:

"Nino Valdez, logical contender. Don Cockell, Empire Champion, second, with Bob Baker, third.

"Now I whipped Valdez with ease, Jimmy Slade knocked out C**kell-after which I whipped Slade, winning nine out of 10 round, And I knocked out Baker, too.

"Furthermore, I have agreed to fight C**kell, Valdez, and Marciano all within a period of 60 days - to which I now add, they can throw Baker in with them for good measure. I ask you can anything be fairer?

"I can whip that Marciano too."

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Never mind Nino, If anything there is a stronger case there was a conspiracy to keep Archie Moore unranked at heavyweight! Nobody did more to get a HW title shot.

 

Ray Robinson knocked Graziano's gumshield out of the ring and he was 72kgs.

 

This is true, but needs to be read alongside the fact that Valdes did bag the Ring #1 spot by knocking out 5th ranked Heinz Neuhaus in November '53, and was still ranked #1 when Marciano signed to fight Ezzard Charles in February '54.

Charles, of course, was due a shot. He'd been ranked #1 by the Ring, and logical contender by the NBA, when he was passed over in favour of Roland LaStarza in 1953. Even after his losses to Valdes and Johnson, the Marciano camp were still making encouraging statements that he would be next in line as long as he could win his planned rematch with Johnson (which ultimately never happened).

 

If I may butt in.Emanuel Steward is generally recognised as one of the two or three
greatest trainers in boxing history.Emanuel's ranking may indeed be nothing more than his
own opinion but doesn't that apply than to all our opinions ? A bit of a redundant comment.
Also Steward's opinion has to carry an awful lot of weight given his status as a ATG coach.
Why on earth say Steward's opinion on the ranking of the ATG heavyweights was ''racially biased '' ?
There is absolutely no evidence to back this up.

 

Like I denied his status as a trainer? Ain't that redundant to mention it? Just see the interview and the fighters he lists as his top...

Knocking someone's gumshield out of his mouth happens, but doing it with teeth inside it is rare, you d**сhе mcvey. You are so sour for the BS you spilt on this topic, you can't stop now but dig even deeper - as I said: dignity. As for the intelligence you are exposed already.

 

Thanks for posting this.

 

So Steward, in your opinion was a racist?
There is no other possible interpretation of your comments.
Eddie Futch named as his three best heavyweights,in no order Ali, Johnson, and Louis.
Was he a racist too?
Intelligence ? Dignity? LOL!

FYI here are some of my previous comments on Marciano
"Great Fighter"." Great Champ" . "Fine Man".
" Possibly The Hardest Puncher Ever Under 190lbs". " Of Those Under 190lbs, I Would Give Only Dempsey ,& Langford Good Chances Of Beating Him".
There is dumb ,and then there is dumber.

 

Well no,my comment about Emanual Steward's greatness was in the context of my post.Did I accuse
you of denying Steward's status as a trainer ? No I didn't.
Without wishing to make this too personal you have made yet another redundant comment.
If memory serves me right Emanuel rated Muhammad Ali as his no 1,with George Foreman,Larry
Holmes and Lennox Lewis making up the rest of his top 4.At least in a H2H rating. A perfectly, reasonable,logical rating.
I don't remember Steward giving a defined top 10 ATG heavyeight list as such but judging from comments
he made about Joe Louis and Sonny Liston it's highly probable that he rates those 2 ATGs in his
all-time top 10.
Getting back to your accusations of Emanual Steward's alleged racial bias,he rates Wladimir Klitschko
as no 8 in his all-time 10 heavyweight-champions.Just thought I'd mention it.

 

Of course, he will list Wlad in his top - he was his trainer. But how about the rest? What Emanuel was right about is he never really gave any definitive top, which is the right thing to do.

What is a "redundant comment" is one based on the validity of your claim "in the context of your post" - what if I do the same thing? Which is pretty stupid.

You don't have to write it directly "you deny the greatness of Emanuel" in order to insist I do (which I don't). So you say you never accused me of that, so what was the point of even reminding me what kind of trainer he was?

 

despite losing to Nino, Ezzard was due a shot whole lot more than Nino Valdes because of his resume. Ideally they should have rematched. No matter. As soon as Ez was winning fights it was Charles who was looking like the second best HW in the world. Not Valdes.

I don’t think anyone was saying that. Please don’t go down that road. I think everyone respects steward.

 

I'll give you one thing,,,you don't know when you're beaten.

 

Keep deluding yourself and be satisfied,,,,,, I'll give you that,,,,,,,

 

Strewth ! Your opening line was ''like I denied his status as a trainer''. A totally unnecessary defensive response by yourself hence my rebuttal.Are you really that obtuse ?
Anyway let's move onto the main issue.You have accused the great Emanual Stewart opinions
being influenced by racism.This is utter nonsense.
Emanual Stewart trained the white heavyweight known as Wladimir Klitschko with diligence and skill which
played a huge part in Wlad becoming one of history's greatest heavyweights. Steward then stated that Wlad
was the 8th greatest heavyweight in history.
So much for Steward being influenced by racism ! The fact that Steward trained Klitschko doesn't automatically
invalidate his opinion of Wlad.It's a perfectly reasonable assessment of Klitschko's abilities and career.