If Greb footage is found and it is mediocre how would it change your view of his opposition??

But he kinda did?

Newspaper choices for Greb-Tunney 2:

• NY Morning Telegraph: Greb won 10 of 15 rounds
• NY Evening Mail: "Decision depriving Greb of LHW Crown Calls for Sweeping Inquiry"
• Newark Star Eagle: Gave Tunney only the 14th round
• Newark Evening News: Greb gave Tunney as bad a beating as the first fight, it was one of the worst decisions handed out since the Walker Law
• Jersey Journal: The only round Tunney won decisively was the 14th.
• Standard Union: After weird decision Tunney is LHW Champion: Judges decide against Greb who had lead on points
• NY Sun: Gave Tunney the fight because Tunney scored more points yet then states that Greb scored more points but that the writer took points away because Greb clinched too often...
• The NY Evening Telegram: Gave the fight to Tunney
• NY American: gave it to Tunney
• NY Times: gave it to Tunney
• NY Evening World: Scored it a Draw and added that Tunney did not deserve the victory despite the writer stating he was a great admirer of Tunney's
• NY Tribune: called it a draw stating the decision met with much disapproval, writing for the same paper Grantland Rice called it a poor decision
• NY Herald: Gave it to Greb, another writer for the paper called it a draw
• Evening Journal: Gave it to Greb
• Evening Mail: Gave it to Greb
• Philly Ledger: Gave it to Greb
• NY Daily News: Stated a draw would have been a better decision.
• Pittsburgh Post: Gave Tunney only two rounds.
• Pittsburgh Gazette Times: Gave it to Greb
• Pittsburgh Press: Gave it Greb

In Greb-Tunney 4, many of the newspapers argued in favour of Greb as well. I don't think arguing that Greb got the better of Tunney is exactly out of the question

 

Arguing that he got the better of is not the same as rejecting the result. Which is what the suggestion has been.

 

I think @dinovelvet was responding to the ever-present posts of ‘of course that’s not how he boxed, he’s just clowning around’ — which you also apparently disagree with.

 

Greg Page may yet find his way into the HoF as an old-timer. I don’t see anyone now suggesting that he shoudl be in.

 

It's also possible that he was just clowning around, although it seems like the film was there to demonstrate how Greb boxed. Truth is, we have no proof either way. I've seen footage of Dempsey shadowboxing and he looked like a complete buffoon, unlike when he was in the ring. We need more from Greb to confirm

 

I'm guilty of rejecting results myself, but it's second nature as a boxing fan. If Greb whipped Tunney and got robbed, which seems to have happened at least twice, it's hard to argue that he didn't get the better of the series. Sure, officially Tunney is 3-1-1 but Greb seems to have outperformed him on most occasions. I can't just ignore this and stick to the decision, because boxing is the most corrupt sport on the planet.

 

Sure but you’ve also got legitimate journalists who saw it the other way. And I don’t see anyone’s round by round scoring. And plenty who thought it was a draw — which sounds to me like it wsa a close fight that could have gone either way.

It went Tunney’s.

Like ‘Tunney only won the 14th round decisively’ doesn’t mean he didn’t edge seven other rounds … which would mean he won more rounds, right? We get reasonable disagreements over scoring today — always have, always will — and fights aren’t decided (in my book) by ‘how many accounts can I find and whoever has the most accounts that favor them won.;

That’s like saying if more people on the world forum favored Loma in the live fight thread then he obviously won … ignoring their credentials or bias. And we know basically nothing of the credentials of any of these newsmen.

 

You don't really have legitimate journalists giving the fight to Tunney though. Out of 19 newspaper reports, 15 of them were heavily in Greb's favour. The ones who gave it to Gene don't even cite Tunney's performance as a reason they gave the fight to him, but because of Greb's continuous holding. Their second fight was so controversial that the state boxing commission even believed Greb won, and found the decision laughable.

If there are two newspapers covering a fight, it'd be fair to not value them. But in this fight, the votes for Greb were so overwhelming it's impossible, in my mind, not to consider this a victory for him. Call it flawed logic, but that's just me

 

Yeah, sorry, but how many times do we hear fans saying GGG beat Canelo or Kovalev beat Ward, or Pac beat Horn, or Lewis beat Holyfield categorically and using the consensus of opinion to bolster their claim. I believe that Greb beat Tunney in their second bout because the vast majority of sources didnt just say he did but called it an outrageous robbery and demanded an investigation into it. Even Tunney himself admitted in his book that there may have been something to Greb's complaints which is why he gave him a rematch. The same can be said for their fourth fight. The people here who have nothing better to do than argue with me may not like it because Im right but the fact is that the majority of sources called that fight a win for Greb. If you think you have a bunch of sources that I somehow missed that alters my math on the subject then by all means post them because unlike these tools I am open to changing my mind on the subject if verifiable first hand sources can be found.

And yes, Dino, he did dominate the men I mentioned. He dominated Tunney in their first fight. You may not like it but that fight was considered a massacre. You say it was because Tunney was injured in the first round. Injured by what most sources say was the first punch Greb threw, a lead right hand which no boxer worth his salt should be hit with. Am I supposed to take credit away from Greb for doing exactly what he was supposed to do: Punch Tunney? Of course not. He went out, punched Tunney in the nose, broke his nose, and then kicked his ass royally. He dominated Tommy Gibbons at Madison Square Garden, and his fight with Walker was also considered a competitive but clear and wide decision with Greb brutally battering a punch drunk Walker around the ring in the 14th round. Walker literally cried in his corner after the final round and more than one ringside reporter reported hearing Walker plead with Greb not to knock him out. That isnt some bull**** story coming decades later from someone close to Greb, those are contemporary reports. And the original point stands that those fights, which would be most likely to exist on film, would show Greb clearly and completely beating three hall of famers. Do you dispute that? Because Id trust a plurality of sources sitting ringside more than some nobody on the internet.

 

Oh please. You didn't even look.

The NY Times was the premiere newspaper in the US and one of the biggest newspapers in the world. The fight was in New York. They covered the fight. They scored it for Tunney 9 rounds to 6. They gave a detailed round-by-round description. I uploaded the entire article below. They even reported, by the final rounds, Tunney was going for the KO.

All three judges scored the fight for Tunney.

The New York Evening Mail was a horse racing paper. The Jersey Journal was a county newspaper in New Jersey. They weren't the freaking NY Times.

Even when judges are provided and they unanimously score if for someone else, some of you guys are digging any local nothing rag and saying "They had Tunney winning." There are more people reading this message board than some of those newspapers.

It's ridiculous.

"You don't have legit journalists" giving it to Tunney? What?

The official judges gave it to Tunney. The NY Times gave it to Tunney.

Show me the film of the fight were Greb won the rematch 14 rounds to 1 (like the "hack" from the Jersey Journal claimed) ... otherwise, GREB freaking lost ... both officially and unofficially.

Seriously, deal with it. It was a 100 years ago.

Counting newspaper accounts isn't an official verdict. Especially when YOU HAVE OFFICIAL JUDGES.

I know Greb rarely had official judges, since two-thirds of his fights didn't, but this one did. THREE judges. And Greb lost in a clean sweep.

https://ibb.co/2gyHGVz

 

And keep in mind the reporters giving the decision to Tunney were all from Tunney's hometown and yet more reporters from Tunney's own hometown had Greb winning. And this was before a hostile crowd, with a hostile ref, and after Greb and his family had been threatened by Tunney's people over the fight. So there goes the idea that Greb was just getting favorable copy by his hometown press.

 

LOL. Well thats a serious historian. Just throw away any source that doesnt agree with you. Jesus what a clown.

 

Yes, Tunney willingly gave him a rematch the same year, and beat him again. Officially. On all three cards. Clean sweep. Greb lost.

 

The video was rolling to showcare his training regime , not to capture him clowning around. Ive analyzed his technique multiple times and deducted that his in ring skill is primitive and representative of a time when the sport was still evolving from the broughton rules era.

 

Your listing had 8 accounts scored for Greb (a headline saying there’s going to be an inquiry is not a score from a newspaperman, it’s a reporting of fact that they’re looking into it) and 7 that were either a draw or for Tunney. Sounds like a close fight to me.