Holyfield Moorer 1 is scored for Holyfield. What happens next?

I think that it happened in the other fight I mentioned- I know that it was a Fermin Chirino fight and I think that it was with Hilton.
Myself, personally, I think that a knockdown should win you the round. That is my opinion. But I have scored rounds 10-9 with a knockdown when one guy was clearly winning the round but got dropped. If somebody else scored it 10-10, I would understand why.
I don't think it is an error, per se, but it is unusual, contrary to custom. But I can see why it would be done and I would score it that way depending on how the round played out.

 

I haven't watched the fight in quite a while, but I remember thinking they probably gave it to Moorer to appease Teddy

 

It is that simple. An even round doesn’t exist when a kd occurs (unless of course both fighters are down)

 

Correct, because the fighter who got knocked down loses a point, and he was already losing the round outside of the knockdown, so a 10-9 round becomes 10-8.

This is incorrect. Because if a fighter is losing a round outside of the knockdown, the score would be 9 - 10. But if the loser of the round scores a knockdown, then you subtract 1 point from his opponent, making it a 9 - 9 round instead of 9 - 10. But 9 - 9 rounds are not allowed in the 10 point must scoring system, which is why some judges score these kinds of rounds 10 - 10. (like Moretti in Ryan Garcia Tank Davis round 2)

Fans typically see scoring a round with a knockdown as 10-10 as an error, like fans were up in arms after Moretti scored round 2 10-10 in Garcia vs Davis. But it makes perfect sense. Ryan was winning the round 10-9 clearly, then the knockdown happened. So you subtract 1 point from the fighter who was knocked down, who was winning the round outside of the knockdown. So it becomes an even round.

 

It's not that simple. If a fighter gets knocked down, he is supposed to have 1 point deducted from his total that round. So if a fighter is winning a round 10-9 then gets knocked down, that makes it an even round 9-9. (which becomes 10-10 due to 10 point must)

If a fighter is losing a round 9-10 and gets knocked down, he gets 1 point deducted from his total that round so it becomes 8 - 10.

If a round is otherwise even outside of a knockdown, then it becomes 10-9.

Here's why, though, that most times a fighter gets knocked down it ends up being a 10-8. Because in addition to the point deduction for getting knocked down, the knockdown itself can also affect the score of the round besides the point deduction.

So anotherwords, if a fighter is slightly winning a round, but then gets knocked down, the knockdown itself (separate from the 1 point deduction) can swing the round by an additional point. The knockdown can cause the scoring of the round to swing from one fighter to another, separate from the automatic 1 point deduction. So the quality of knockdown itself (i.e. how good of a KD it was, how clean it landed, how hurt the opponent was, etc) shoudd be factored into the scoring, into the equation of who wins the round (outside of the automatic point deduction).

So that's why if a fighter was winning a round, but only slightly, he then gets knocked down and loses a round 10-8. Because the judge would have determined that the knockdown was big enough to swing the round in the favor of the fighter who was losing the round before that (from a 9-10 to a 10-9, then you deduct the point making it a 10-8). But if it's only a flash knockdown, lets say, then maybe it's not enough to be a 10-8 or if the fighter was winning the round before the knockdown was winning it convincingly by a wide margin.

So any of these scores : 10-8, 10-9, or 10-10, which is 9-9 adjusted to give 10 to both is acceptable following a knockdown. It depnds on a lot of factors and the reasoning of the judge.

 

I'm afraid I think you are incorrect. If a fighter scores a KD and doesn't suffer one or have any points deducted for a foul, then they automatically win the round. 10-8 if they otherwise won the round, 10-9 if they otherwise lost the round.

If you won't take my word for it, then please take the word of professional boxing judge, Duane Ford - https://www.ringtv.com/122349-when-does-a-knock-down-not-result-in-a-10-8-round/#:~:text=If Fighter A is winning,awarded the round 10-9.

 

https://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/pro-judges-general-rules.pdf

Read pages 5 and 6. It outlines the procedures for scoring of rounds with a knockdown in it :

"The knockdown is generally scored as one point."

The distinction is to consider the knockdown itself as part of the overall scoring of the round (besides the automatic one point deduction of the fighter who was knocked down). Because, after all, the knockdown punch is in fact part of the round that should be factored in to all the other punches that go into scoring the round.

On Page 6, it gives 4 situations of how a round could be scored that had a knockdown in it. The rules very clearly state that either 10-8, 10-9 or 10-10 are acceptable scores for the reasons I outlined.

In Scenario 4, it describes a "flash punch" knockdown and states that "Consideration can be given to judging this 10-10".

And then says "(It should be noted that some judges feel that a Boxer scoring the knock-down should not lose the round)"

Even in that scenario, 10-10 wouldn't be the boxer who scored the knock-down losing the round. The scenario where that sort of thing would apply would be if a fighter was completely dominating a round to the extent that he would deserve a 10-8 round without a knockdown, then gets flash knocked down, some judges would feel that the fighter who scored the knockdown shouldn't lose that round, even though he was dominated. That's not to say that a 10-10 round wouldn't be appropriate if a fighter who was clearly losing the round scored a knockdown.

 

Interesting, thanks for posting.

The part that is material to our discussion is Situation 1 on page 6. It states if a fighter is winning the round and you'd otherwise score it 10-9 to him, but suffers a knockdown you should score 10-9 to his opponent, which was my understanding and disproves your "a fighter loses 1 point for suffering a knockdown in all circumstances" theory, as in this case they lost 2 points.

However, it then goes on to state that the round may also be scored 10-10 "depending on how far ahead" the fighter who was winning the round was before suffering a knockdown. I concede I was unaware of this. It seems a little ambiguous and therefore open to interpretation. Duane Ford, who is not only a judge, but at the time of the article I posted taught classes on how to apply these ABC guidelines, stated in the third round of the Cotto vs Pacquiao fight, where Cotto was winning the round but suffered a KD, the round should have been awarded 10-9 to Pacquiao.

That said, given the aforementioned "Situation 1", I concede that in theory, a round can be scored 10-10 when one fighter scores a KD, and still be in accordance with these ABC guidelines.

 

Sure thing.

No, I covered this, by stating that the fighter knocked down loses 1 point automatically from his score, and then in addition to that, the knockdown itself can swing the round an additional point : (depending on how close the round was outside of that, how good the knockdown was, etc)

(from post #20)

**
"So anotherwords, if a fighter is slightly winning a round, but then gets knocked down, the knockdown itself (separate from the 1 point deduction) can swing the round by an additional point. The knockdown can cause the scoring of the round to swing from one fighter to another, separate from the automatic 1 point deduction."
**

Right, and that was merely Duane Ford's opinion on how that round should be scored, but you were acting like it had to be scored that way, or that a round couldn't be scored 10-10 that had a knockdown.

In Situation 1 or in Situation 4, a round could be scored 10-10 with a knockdown, and the difference between winning a round convincingly or with overwhelming dominance is of course subjective, as is how good the knockdown itself was.

The main thing is just to point out that rounds with a knockdown scored 10-10 are perfectly acceptable, despite the fact that many fans on here, not just yourself, were claiming they weren't and that judges can't score rounds with knockdowns 10-10. Particularly in the aftermath of Ryan Garcia Tank Davis, Moretti scored Round 2 10-10 despite Ryan Garcia clearly winning that round before he was knocked down. If you recall a TON of fans were all over Moretti for scoring that round 10-10, with fans saying he was wrong, judges can't do that, etc.

I was sitting there thinking, wow there are a lot of boxing fans who have no idea what they're talking about. And they were arguing it passionately like they were some sort of authority on the matter. And this is the crazy part, is that fans literally tried to use that 10-10 round 2 to claim that Moretti is a horrible judge, or even as fuel to claim that he was a "corrupt" judge. When clearly it's perfectly acceptable to do that and was arguably the most accurate score for that round.

Whether Ryan was winning that round 2 by "overwhelming dominance" or just "convincingly" before he was knocked down is debatable, but regardless it was a sensational knockdown, not just a "flash" knockdown. So that specific round may not fit perfectly into either of those scenarios, but the point is that 10-10s are certainly allowed and acceptable in situations like that.

 

I've read the 4 situations again, more carefully this time, and it's actually pretty clear:

• Fighter A would have won the round 10-9 without a KD and scores a KD = 10-8 to fighter A. I.e. 1 point swing to Fighter A as a result of the KD.
• Fighter A would have won the round 10-9, but suffers a KD = Fighter B wins the round 10-9. I.e. 2 point swing to Fighter B as a result ok the KD
• Fighter A would have won the round 10-8 without a KD (such was their dominance), but suffers a KD = 10-10 even round. I.e. 2 point swing to Fighter B as a result of the knockdown.

Therfore , back to Swag's original point, if, aside from Holyfield's KD, Moorer had been dominating the round to the extent he would have won it 10-8, then Holyfield's KD makes the round 10-10 following these guidelines. Otherwise, the judge made an error.

 

Holyfield fights (Pre Steward)Lennox Lewis and possibly stops him.