Matter of fact who would win between usyk and Tyson?

Douglas gave Tyson a beating though it wasn't his power that was troubling him, it was his outstanding jab and being able to push Mike off. Plus I don't want to use excuses but it was an off night for Tyson for whatever reason.

Usyk doesn't possess power at Heavyweight Chisora pretty much walked through everything he threw without ever being trouble. The main problem was that Chisora couldn't keep up the pace but he was certainly troubling Usyk with his pressure.

The difference between Douglas and Usyk aswell is that Douglas planted his feet more when punching, Usyk is constantly on the move and doesn't really plant his feet to get real power in his punches.

A few other things to note is that Douglas has a 83 inch reach, and is much more of a unit than Usyk being up to 230+ pounds. I remember @Glass City Cobra telling a story when he met Douglas at gym, and he said how huge he looked especially his hands.

 

I know Rahman benches more than Joe Louis and I know Joe Louis makes a cereal bowl out of Rahmans skull.

 

when he was training for Tyson he would spar to get his heart rate up to 190bpm and then put up 360lbs for 10 reps, presumably doing a few rounds/sets, that's at least a 500lb 1 rep max, for perspective Fury's dead lift is 550lbs

Holyfield was insanely strong, and the reason he went to those extremes was because he knew he had to hang with Tyson

 

I think this covers a few of the collective aspects of Douglas' approach to the Tyson fight...(Power, Jab, Use of larger frame [combined with the Jab]). Douglas was also very handy at mid-range and in the clinches - both defensively, by tying up, and in his taking opportunities to create something from them.

Your observation, re Douglas' planting his feet, is critical. Douglas was not only mobile and leveraging his size advantage from the outside, he was also using his movement to take a position, hold the ground he'd elected to take and launch an assault. And, these assaults were largely successful because Douglas was getting his punches off first and he was strong enough to handle anything that came back from Tyson.

Perhaps most important of all, however, was the consistency of this approach by Douglas. He maintained the upper-hand by combining all of these aspects repeatedly - to deliver the beating (as you put it).

 

That bench press story is a giant BS, dear God!

 

I believe it with the juice and his work rate, his traps had Tyson beat before they entered the ring

 

Just to reiterate, I described Usyk as a live dog.

Douglas had an outstanding power jab and his effective power across all his punches on that night contributed significantly to the complexion and outcome.

Imo, Tyson had an excellent chin. He was beat up but they were power shots all the way through.

Buster also practised sufficient lateral movement to prevent Tyson from ideally setting himself.

Chisora is taller than Mike, so Usyk wasn’t punching down. Derek is also better reached than Tyson - though just having read his reach now, 74”??, wow, that’s only 3” longer than Mike’s - , a bit surprising.

As to size, Chisora was a bigger opponent for Usyk to have to move around. When Usyk’s evasiveness was at its greatest and the leverage on his punches least, (up to the mid way point of the fight) - Chisora was tracking and trying to walk into him.

After the mid way point, Usyk was planting more and set Chisora back on his heels a number of times to arrest his forward advances.

The power Douglas upheld could be used against Usyk’s chances - since it can be argued that Oleksandr won’t possess the same power to keep Mike honest and/or hurt him, but, as I said, even Douglas’ own power seemed enhanced in Tokyo against the much shorter and lesser reached Tyson.

As to Mike having an “off night” vs Douglas, due respect but that is an excuse. And, if there was an validity to that claim, then the treatment is inequitable if one doesn’t examine and weigh in any and all possible excuses for Mike’s previously vanquished opposition - an analytical treatment that clearly wasn’t applied.

Rather, the scalps of Mike’s victims were absorbed as absolute credit to Mike, no detractions - a one way analytical treatment that lent itself to the gross miscalculations that unrealistically deemed Mike to be invincible and a 42-1 favourite over Buster.

Any fighter projected to have such superiority over an opponent as Tyson was afforded over Douglas should still have prevailed even if one factors a so called “off night” into the equation.

















Chisora did walk into Usyk in the early rounds - when Oleksandr’s mobility was most extreme and his punches at their least leveraged.

However. at and beyond the mid way point, the action slowed a bit, and Usyk began sitting down on his shots a bit more, landing with sufficient power to send Chisora back on heels on a number of occasions and certainly arresting his go forward.

Usyk’s reach is 78” - still a fair margin greater than Mikes to be utilised to potential advantage.

 

My point was Tyson lost to a guy who in Usyks era could have made cruiserweight and then rehydrated to 215/218.

 

I severely doubt Holyfield was making 200 then rehydrating to 215/218. Even by the time he fought Tyson Holyfield was only 215/218 and he'd bulked up many years prior with zero diet restrictions of having to make weight and then added some more along the way. He's not rehydrating to 218. Usyk didn't rehydrate remotely close to that.

 

Wait, I heard 365 X 10, but now you are saying that Holyfield would DO that set with a HR of 190?
I am skeptical that is accurate, also because that rate is higher even than his rough theoretical max. heart rate (220-age then).

Also I corrected the miscalculation b4 when they credited him w/a 365.
10 reps with 360 is a predicted 480 lbs. 1 rep max. [url]Calculator here[/url].
Also Evander was better at reps-in all likelihood he would get a max no more than the mid 400's, still huge.

 

Why could Holyfield not do that, even easily?
36 hours usually between weigh in & the fight, 24 is plenty for guys to do 10% of body weight, & this is a bit less than that.
Plus Holyfield was heavily muscled in the upper body-& that has much more water than say someone very tall & lean-so it is easier to lose & gain back more weight.

Some guys not especially muscular do over 10%-like a recent fight at 135 where one guy weighed 151 in ring.
Or a fight of Crawford's where he was at 157, technically fighting at up to 140.

Ocassionaly guys are more extreme than even this, but sure Holy could have dipped under 200 & back again.

 

Let's face it, Tyson destroys him!

 

Do you have any proof of guys making 200 and then weighing in at 218?

 

I'll look, a cursory examination shows they

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My currency is nice cold hard facts. A cruiserweight making the 200 then banging up to 218. You mentioned "even easily" so there should be no shortage of anecdotes and examples around. In the meantime i have shots of Usyk only rehydrating to 208 fight night and his opponents less or no better. Usyk's considered a big cruiserweight and now is slated as being around the size of Foreman and co so it's a little strange he rehydrates less than half as much as the Holyfield claim. He could have been coming in around 220 under these guidelines so why would he potentially give up a sizeable weight advantage to others.