Would Holyfield be a world class heavyweight without the aid of PEDs?

No doubt he used PEDS, but I suspect most of his opponents during this time were on something, too.
Just a note about PEDS during this era... 8x Mr. Olympia revealed his PED cycles not so long ago. He won his first title in 1998.
What was a real eye-opener was that the dosages were nowewhere near what today's guys are taking, and they were also not that readily available back then. Even the top bodybuilders pretty much took what they could find, unlike now where you can get what you want online.
(Though the efficacy is sometimes questionable.)
The point being... if someone like 8x Mr. Olympia (who would be extremely well-connected), took way less than what was originally thought, and took only what he could find, then I suspect the same applies to Holyfield.
'Roids do not give you grit, toughness, technique or desire. They can make you stronger, recover more quickly from training and in some cases increase stamina, but they can't make you a champion.

 

Yes, they weren't a new concept, but many boxers had an already rooted mindset about them, they didn't believe in their effectiveness.
Mike Tyson is the best example about this, Cus believed roids and lifting weights make you stiff, and instilled this belief into Mike as well.

 

Yes because all his opponents would have to stop taking them aswell.

 

They don't have to.

This is where you are wrong, cause all of these attributes you listed can absolutely make you champion.

 

Boxing is an athletic pursuit. An athlete first tested positive for doping in 1968 and no doubt athletes were using PEDs prior to then. I'm not saying boxers were, but I'm very confident use was wide spread in the 90's.

The clue in the acronym PEDs is performance enhancing. They can enhance strength, speed and stamina. The idea that the most successful fighters and their teams in a multi million dollar industry in the 90's had caveman ideas and couldn't comprehend what performance enhancing means is absurd.

Boxers could earn 8-figure purses in the 90's. People kill other people for far less. World class boxers are typically obsessively driven to succeed at boxing at the cost of everything else. The chances boxers, on a wide scale, then weren't doing all they could to enhance their performance are between slim and none, and I think I see slim looking for directions to get out of town.

 

Lmao

 

They help, of course. I still think that it's the intangibles that ultimately make the biggest difference.

 

I don't have proof, but from what I've seen PEDs will give a person much more courage than he would ordinarily have. I think "grit, toughness" are enhanced by PED use. With that enhanced, along with speed, strength, recovery time, reflexes, etc. PED use could make the difference between a top fighter and a guy that never would get into the ring. I've seen guys who would get into the ring and spar good fighters while they were on a cycle, when they were off their cycle, they wouldn't consider getting in the ring. I don't know if the PEDs work on the person's brain/personality to give him more courage or if it is just the feeling of being much stronger and faster, but something happens.

 

this is interesting, it could potentially explain young Tyson

"I had an insanely high testosterone level when I was 19"..."my mother was there with me and they asked her is he a handful?"

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T level is directly linked to desire. Steroids mimic T.

 

That sir, would be Trenbolone. It does make a person feel invulnerable and completely fearless, but Trenbolone wreacks havok with cardiovascular fitness. Terrible steroid for boxing.

 

That's why bodybuilders don't use it all the time

 

A lot of what needs to be said has been said...I am just going to add that it is pretty easy to extrapolate that his heart attack and other organ failure in the Moorer fight are PEDs related, especially since they never even tried to explain it. Also, I have said it before and I will say it again...at the time I kept asking myself why Holyfield's head was growing, which I did not realize was a symptom of HGH use.

I just can't overlook all this, and Holy loses several notches in my ATG ratings.

 

I dunno but obviously he thought he needed them.

 

Two points, yes most/near all modern pro-athletes in general are on PEDs.

Second is, that doesn't negate that Holyfield did not have the natural frame to fight at HW if not for the drug aided weight gain that allowed him to put on a significant amount of purely lean muscle with no added fat.

You can generally tell who has the potential to a be good HW just from their natural frame and bone structure, Holyfield did not have that.